I floated this idea several years ago to a guild official who didn't like it at all. I am curious if anybody but me thinks it would make the show more interesting. The guild should activly recruit some of the accuracy smiths, the guys who build across the course rifles, race pistols, F class and Palma rifles. Get them out to show what they are building. There is more to life than mauser DGRs.

quote:

Originally posted by LJRivard:
There is more to life than mauser DGRs.

There sure is.......there are Winchesters, Farqy's, Martini's, SxS $ O&U Shotguns etc etc....

I am a BR shooter and do my own smithing as do 60% of the BR crowd. Most of us wouldn't be a pimple on the ass of a Guild gunsmith. We are good at what we do, but it is a different ballgame.
Butch

It would be like trying to watch two completely different movies at once. I think each set of craftsmen could learn a great deal from the other but it's the wrong venue for a joint show.

ditto what Forrest said in his first point-night and day types of rifles. Apples and oranges may be nice side by side in a fruit stand, but the Guild Show is not designed to be a fruit stand. The 2 catagories you mention are definitely apples and oranges, as are the majority of the die-hard followers of each.

Personally, I know that many (most?) Guild-type makers do use a lot of accuracy techniques, and most of the rifles shoot very well. So well that they are really far more accurate than they need to be for their intended purpose.

From my vantage pont, I don't really see where techniques for shaping and checkering English walnut, performing extensive cosmetic metal work, the latest stock finish technique, bew techniques for centuries-old metal finishes, etc would be of much interest to a dedicated benchrest gunsmith. I could be wrong, but none of the upper level shooters in a ny of the accuracy games really cared much about the latest custom gee-whiz.

Most of them would not appreciate or care about the 1909 modified by Ed Lapour shown on this page just today. Oh sure some would, and many may like to look at it, but that is a far cry from the typical person who would commission a top-end rifle.

the guild show is for admiring the way they look. Sure, most of them, if not all, probably shoot fantastic too, but we don't get to see that.

bench rest rifles just aren't good looking, in my opinion at least. You want to see them work. Why not have a show once a year where bench rest builders get together and put on their own thing, they can display their wares and do it where there is a range and they or somebody else can demonstrate their work. I think it would be really cool to do something like that and have a few of the top competitive shooters sit down and shoot every participating builders product. See overall how they placed against each other.

Red

Jim Cloward is one who has blended guild quality chraftsmanship into his long range rifles. Some of the rifles he has build would be as much at home on a table with a Duane Weibe or Chic Worthing rifle as they are on Viale range at Perry. The only problem is that most target shooters don't want to pay for that kind of workmanship on a tool that is going to get treated the way most target rifles are. (BR rifles excluded).

John

I guess the preponderance of opinion is that east is east, west is west and never the twain shall meet. I must be the minority, I'm interested in just about everthing that goes bang. Since this will never happen anyway, its probably a good thing that no one else would like to see it. Thanks for all your opinions, that's what I wanted to know.

Forrest summed it up quite nicely. Before I became friends with ForrestB and Customstox and a few other members of this site I had a completely different idea of a custom rifle. All of my experience with custom rifles up to that point had been with competition rifles. I used to shoot a lot of across the course, 1000 yard, and metallic silhouette. They were amazingly accurate and beautiful in their own way. But they did not posess the ARTISTIC touch that a gun built by a member of the guild does. It is hard to compare the two types of firearms. They may both be rifles but they take a different path at that point. As Forrest mentioned, they could learn a lot fromeach other. In fact I have noticed a change over the last 15 years in a lot of the factory rifles due to the techniques developed by the competition and benchrest crowd. A lot of those techniques carry over between fine custom guns and competition rifles. And I see a lot of the custom builders incorperate such things into their custom rifles.

But to put mix them into the same pot just wouldnt work in my opinion. But it would be fun to be a fly on the wall and listen to each side share ideas and secrets with each other.

quote:

Originally posted by gasgunner:
Jim Cloward is one who has blended guild quality chraftsmanship into his long range rifles. Some of the rifles he has build would be as much at home on a table with a Duane Weibe or Chic Worthing rifle as they are on Viale range at Perry. The only problem is that most target shooters don't want to pay for that kind of workmanship on a tool that is going to get treated the way most target rifles are. (BR rifles excluded).

John

I had considered mentioning Jim in my pevious post and forgot to. Here is a pic of my Jim Cloward across the course rifle built on a 1903. It shoos 1/2 MOA all day long and is a real pleasure to shoot. The stock is Clowards own pattern that he came up with for high power shooters. It may look a little strange, but it is a dream to shoot with. I think Jim Cloward is a perfect example of mixing beauty and utility. Sorry for the poor pics. The scope is just on the rifle for load testing. My match sights attach directly to the rear scope base and I can swap between iron sights and a scope in seconds if I want to shoot in an "any rifle any sight" match.