I have a factory Remington 7mm STW that get excessive copper fouling every time to the range. First thought it was the x-bullets, but same problem with nosler partitions. Today I shot only 12 rounds, but it took me an hour to get the copper fouling out. I used Shooter's and Butch's Bore Shine. Is there something wrong with my barrel??

I would appreciate any help, not much fun to shoot when you have to clean longer than you shoot

How does the rifle shoot?

how new is the barrel?

does it shoot well?

does it shoot 50 well, and then dies, or does it care if it's clear and clean?

jeffe

The rifle shoots about 1.5 to 2 inches. Not too good. I have tried different bullets, charges, etc. Nothing real bad, but not what I want. The groups do tend to get a little worse, but it's hard to tell since I am shooting 4 round groups with different loads. The barrel is about 8 years old, but only about 160 rounds through it. I didn't break the barrel in, didn't know anything about that 8 yrs ago when I bought the gun. Is there anything I can do to eliminate such copper fouling? I used 50 patches tonight and it is still not completely clean, still getting some blue...

I reccomend that you try David Tubbs Final Finish system and firelap the barrel. Don't use the cheaper NECO system, itonly has 3 grits vs 5 for the Tubbs system. It should take care of the rough bore and greatly improve accuracy. Your other option is to send the gun back to the manufacturer.I used it on a Savage .300 RUM that now shoots sub .5 MOA>

bowhuntr

It's never too late to break in a barrel, provided you can get it clean down to bare metal.

I'd JB the livin' hell out of it (Jarhead reflex, sorry) and when you're sure it's as clean as you can get it, start the 1-shot-clean, 1-shot-clean break in cycle. Oughta help some and it might help a lot!

Don't be too disappointed though if it helps only marginally. High intensity rounds in factory-grade barrels are gonna foul - it's a fact of life I'm afraid.

Cheers!

Redial

[QUOTE]Originally posted by redial:
"It's never too late to break in a barrel"

I would think that after 160 rounds, the 1 shot and clean treatment is pretty well going to be an excercize in futility.

Justin B,

There is going to be copper present because the bore contains tiny machine marks that will generally pull enough copper from the bullet as it passes down the bore, to fill these in.

Unless the presence of copper is excessive and creating accuracy problems, then I wouldn't worry so much about getting it "ALL" out. The first round down a spotless barrel is referred to as a "fouling round" and will usually start the filling process all over again.

If you decide it is a problem, then you might give the "Tubb Final Finish" a try.

Good luck,

Malm

Try this, please

shoot 10... same load... see how it does... can make it 2 5xgroups...

then

take your bore brush, WRAP a patch around it, soak the patch, and <pumping> it up and down the barrel with short strokes (i know it sounds funny) but the purpose it to overlap strokes

should take about 15 seconds to reach the end of the barrel...

do this twice

run a wet patch straight through

run 2 dry patchs, 3 if it's still bad

fire 1 fouling shot

and fire 2x5shot groups...

if the groups are the same size, you've got a 1.5 moa gun....

I don't think, but that's just my opinion, that firelapping will help

give it a shot

jeffe

Malm hit it the mark on this one. If you look carefully at the muzzel, I'll bet you can see some concentric chatter marks down the bore. Many remingtons show them. No amount of polishing is going to remove them. Don't waste your time on The FINAL FINISH as all it does is grind out the throat of your chamber and the first 6 inches of your barrel. It's about the same as shooting 2000 bullets through your gun. If your gun shoots 1.5 inches, then glass bed the lug, first inch of barrel and the action tang, then play with loads till it shoots sub 1 inch. My rem 700 7stw has a similar crappy bore also, but with Rl-22 and 140 gr Noslers it will shoot <.5 MOA. Every 10 rds srub the bore with shooters choice and then JB like hell for 20 strokes. You won't ever get all the copper out but the gun will shoot!-Rob

Thanks for the advice Rob. I am not familiar with JB's, is that some kind of bore paste? Sorry, learned about everything I know from this board. How hard is it to glass bed the action, etc? I had the barrel done sometime ago. I probably wouldn't tackle it myself, but there are not any real good gunsmiths around my area (central AR). If it's fairly simple, then some of the locals could probably do it.

thanks.

Anybody got any more suggestions? The copper fouling is ridiculous only after 10 rounds. Should I try some moly bullets? Rebarrel? desperate....

I have an older savage 110v.... I worked it down to a 3/8th" groups shooter...but it would only stay that way for about 20-30 shots... slowly opening up... because of the copper fouling.....I was into bench rest back then and another shooter had a bore scope with him( big bench rest guy) and we looked down it before and after using his special cleaner......lots of copper, than after cleaning... we could easily see all the tool marks...

I said I got to have better, bought a Hart barrel, sent it to a good bench rest smith , I accurized the action true and square before I sent it to him....tight neck chamber....pillar bedded.......the works....the gun shoots 3/8th "

the only difference is I dont have to clean it very often... but it doesnt shoot any more accurate in the short term.........good luck...bob

Justin,
You probably have some compacted copper fouling in yout barrel. Its a common problem and will take forever with conventional cleaning methods and cleaners.

Order a can of Wipe-Out bore cleaner. Midway & Cabelas sells it now. Fill the bore with this foam and let it sit horizonally overnight. Patch out and repeat. Usually it takes only two treatments to obtain a squeaky clean bore! I love this stuff! More info at http://www.paulcousa.com/wipeout.htm
Give Paul a call if you need more info.

After your bore is clean, then start your load development. I've had real good results in the 7STW using RL25 and various 150gr bullets both accuracy and velocity wise. If she still won't shoot then consider some trigger and bedding work. Maybe a re-crown if yours is poor.

MtnHtr

I will have to try some wipeout. But even when I can get the bore fairly clean, it fouls terribly in about 10 rounds. Hate to rebarrel after only 200 rounds. But what good is a gun that takes 1 hr to clean only to foul again in 10 rounds.

Justin, with Wipe-out, it'll take 24 hours to clean, but you are only there for the first 3 and last 2 minutes of that...... Unless you need to shoot the rifle longer between cleanings (more rounds), it will solve your problem until you wear the barrel out. In the end, copper is only a problem if it creates accuracy problems. JMO, Dutch.

If there are button chatter marks, like Robgunbuilder says, it is hopeless. I put a Addams and Bennet .243 barrel blank on a Mauser and it shoots one fouling shot, three holes touching, and then is so copper fouled that the groups open to 2". Two hours of copper cleaning, and it is ready to do it again.

Get a Walthar Lother barrel, it is hand lapped at the factory.

[ 10-23-2003, 18:39: Message edited by: Clark ]

I'm in the middle of an experiment, that isn't finished, to try the re-break in thing. So I admit at the first that I don't have any data. But there is good reason to try that route first.

If a barrel is not broken in, the theory goes, it will quickly accumulate copper. Now, when a bullet goes down the bore, you have copper sliding against copper, and more copper being ground off.

This layer of copper prevents the break-in bullets from fine polishing the bore.

The logical answer, if the theory is right, is to use Wipe Out, Sweets, and JB paste liberally, until all the copper is gone. I'm doing this on a Mosin M44. I finally got it down to the point that the reddish spiral racing stripe is gone from the bore, and Sweets or Wipe Out return no color. Once that is done, you should be able to break in the bore.

Will it work? Heckifino. But it makes sense that it might, and it is the least drastic thing you can do. I'd start with that, and see if it helps. If it doesn't, try something more drastic.