Men,
I hunt deer and elk in all types of weather. I prefer walnut stocks, but can see the value of laminated and synthetics as well. From PURELY an accuracy standpoint, am I just as well off with a walnut stock that has been properly bedded and sealed (barrel channel as well) as with a laminated or synthetic? I would appreciate some opinions from those who know. Thanks

It's not all that easy to completly seal a piece of wood or woooden laminate permanently. If you want a truly all weather, all condition, moisture/waterproof stock go synthetic. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "from purely an accuracy standpoint". A good synthetics won't shrink, swell, twist or warp. Wood will, and a wooden stock that has those tendancies can surely affect accuracy.

while its true synthetck and laminated stocks are most stable, in my opinion(for what thats worth) A properly fitted and finished walnut stock is not likly to cause you to miss a game animal as big as an elk.
generaly when i go elk hunting I take one or 2 rifles, either a Model 70 in .338 win or 7mmSTW both are blue and wood,along with my custom synthetic stocked mauser in 35 whelen. If the weather gets really bad i use the whelen.
...tj3006

A standard walnut stock that has been glass bedded and sealed will NOT be as stable as a synthetic or laminated stock. The synthetic will be the most stable, but laminates run them a close second.

If you want the beauty of walnut and the stability of a laminate, there are some stocks being offered now in which a walnut stock is sectioned and laminated in such a way that the outside piece retains the beauty of the wood. I have heard they a quite stable and almost as pretty as a regular walnut stock.

If you do a Google search, you can probably find some purveyors of these stocks. Kudude

If the weather is so bad that it is going to cause your stock to warp to a point that it is going to effect the point of impact, do you really want to be outside?

Well, I have several buddy's up north in Alaska, that hunt in very severe weather and have for the past 30+ years. Now most, not all are using factory blue/wood guns,Winchester,Remington,Ruger and maybe a couple others. They have had no problems due to weather.They keep them cleaned and oiled if an oil finish, a couple use the old Johnson paste wax.
I would have to say, use what you like best and just give it the proper care needed, wheather wax,oil or other type of finish care.

quote:

am I just as well off with a walnut stock that has been properly bedded and sealed (barrel channel as well) as with a laminated or synthetic? I would appreciate some opinions from those who know.

Nothing is as good as a "good" synthetic.

McMillan, H S Precision, and Borden Rim Rock come to mind.

Place your barreled action in a McMillan and glass bed it and forget about warpage.....it's the only way!

What about these? www.accurateinnovations.com

I've got to vote for the walnut stock. If you do a bedding job, remove at least 1/8"+ around the action. Then fill the void with a half gallon of Bisonite or Devcon steel filled bedding compound. With a PROPERLY free floated barrel this is a superior stable shooting platform to ANY plastic stock. Sorry boys. In EVERY shooting situation from sub zero to desert heat this will be a more consistent shooting rifle than the synthetic. The only reason the wood wins in every situation is synthetics can't hold up as well in the heat as fine walnut. In other situations, properly bedded they are EQUAL. Here's some pics of a rifle that is bedded in the above mentioned fashion. They don't have to be ugly to shoot extremely well. I'd still rather inlet a rifle without any glass at all. I know snthetic has a firm foothold in the firearms industry. And I do know that many of the most accurate rifles have synthetic stocks. I also know if those bug shooting benchrest rifles were stocked and bedded properly in fine walnut they would shoot the same.

Gunmaker

Beautiful work, as always.

This is just my opinion, but I would much rather have a nice lookin shootin iron like the one pictured that shot 1.5 inch groups than some plastic stocked one that shot .5 inch groups. Any day of the week!

We build 'em how you want 'em, but walnut will always be my favorite.

At the Dallas Safari show I picked up the Hill Country Rifle catalog. In it they guarantee better accuracy with their wood stocked rifles than with there Mcmillian stocked rifles.

I like wood but comparing all the synthetics to a plastic toy stock is like comparing all women to Rosie Odonnel.

quote:

Originally posted by LBGuy:
Men,
From PURELY an accuracy standpoint, am I just as well off with a walnut stock that has been properly bedded and sealed (barrel channel as well) as with a laminated or synthetic?

I think the answer to your question is YES. The stock has to be done right though.

Thanks for the great answers. If more would care to comment, it would be appreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by dempsey:
I like wood but comparing all the synthetics to a plastic toy stock is like comparing all women to Rosie Odonnel.

You're right I edited my post above to remove the toy comments. I'm just a little jaded from all the shilling that goes on in the magazines on this subject. For example, How many articles have you seen by L Simpson where the only rifle worth owning is made by a certain gunsmith?

Years ago My friend and I went on a muzzle loader hunt where it rained all day, every day---COLD rain. No deer because it was buck only and all I could find were doe locked up tight in cover.
He used a new TC Hawken and I had my home made, REAL Hawken finished with many coats of Tru Oil. My rifle came through it without a problem but his factory finish was GONE and his wood swelled so bad I could barely see the edge of the buttplate. His entire rifle needed sanded down, and re-bedded. It was a huge mess. I had to let it dry for a month before touching it.
It depends on the finish and care put into making the wood stock. They do as well as any material. It is cheaper for the factories to make a plastic stock then to make a good wood stock. But they sure charge a lot of money for them!
I am sure anyone that has fantastic wood will finish and protect the wood the way it should be. It is worth the extra work.
Isn't it funny that all military rifles were made with wood until the tinker toy guns showed up and even WWI guns are still going strong, not to mention civil war guns and revolutionary flinters.

There is a tendacy on my part to lean toward a utilitarian type rifle like a Stevens mod 200 out of the box for a hunting rifle. good enough.

I truely enjoy looking at and touching beautifully wood stocked rifles ( and other things) but would never take one hunting and risk a scratch.

To me ,one is a usefull tool and the other is a work of art. roger

gunmaker, I don't read the mags with any regularity but I do see it on the boards. Perhaps it's filtered down from the magazines. I don't like to hunt in the rain anyways and don't have to worry about it much in the arid West where I live and hunt. Make mine wood 95% of the time.

A properly sealed and finished wood stock can be the equal of a synthetic. Synthetics are not always trouble free but the risk is certainly reduced. It is also reduced if you bed, seal the inletting and finish it with weather in mind. If you are concerned about scratching a gun, then stick with synthetics.

I happen to have a love affair with wood stocks as do a lot of the people that tend to prefer wood stocks on guns. I hunt in all kinds of weather and in nasty conditions and they have never failed me.

I have had one stock warp on me and it had nothing to do with weather or moisture, but was due to the this particular stock wanting to move. I cured it.

I think it depends more on the look you want than the material from which it is made. By that I mean, if you do as gunmaker suggests and remove the 1/8" and use devcon, or whatever, you have basically made a synthetic stock base with a wood covering. So you could also call it synthetic, since that is all that the metal touches...synthetic.

I also happen to prefer that method. I love the beauty of wood, with the proper synthetic bedding and sealing. I don't think anyone can make a totally synthetic stock that looks as good as wood. And I agree with Chic, if you are worried about scratching it, buy synthetic.

On iron sighted rifles and big bores for the largest game wood is fine but, As much as I love wooden handles, on rifles that may be called upon to deliver pin point accuracy in all sorts of weather, nothing compares to a good synthetic stock.

Phil, I am going to disagree with that. There is zero difference in accuracy between a good wood stock and the plastics. The only good thing I see about a plastic stock is they might still be in one piece after tumbling down a mountain but I won't mention the metal or sight damage!

plastic schmastic - new orleans pimps like plastic guns walnut reigns nice rifle gunmaker

I have no doubt that the accuracy potential of a dry wooden stock is no different than that of a synthetic stock but in over forty years of hunting in wet, rugged conditions I have never seen a wooden stock that did not absorb moisture. Even laminated wood absorbs moisture, gain weight and swell.
I too stand by my opinion that in severe wet conditions nothing beats a synthetic stock. Military snipers around the globe agree as well.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Military snipers around the globe agree as well.

Carlos Hathcock might disagree. Wasn't he in Desert Storm? Just kidding

The advantages of a quality synthetic stock are, I think, obvious to all. I do tend to also think the disadvantages of wood stocks, moisture absorption, is blown out of proportion by the gun rag writers whose employers sell lots of advertising space to the makers of the synthetics and hardly any, if any, to the makers of wood stocks. I also think there is a big difference between one who lives and works for weeks and months at a time in wet environments to those of use that are in those conditions for maybe ten days. When you accurately weigh all the pros and cons it always comes out to be tough to beat the materials Mother Nature has provided us with.

One question I do have is exactly how does a warping stock affect accuracy or change the point of impact? I can see it pushing on the barrel but that is the only case I can come up with.

I know of no way to predict how much, or how, moisture will affect any given stock but to argue that it doesn't is to ignore facts.

If still alive Carlos Hathcock would be the first to tout the virtues of synthetic stocks.

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:
One question I do have is exactly how does a warping stock affect accuracy or change the point of impact? I can see it pushing on the barrel but that is the only case I can come up with.

You got it. If you ever get to a really wet place to hunt you may get first hand experience - and 10 days is plenty. I fought this for a few years, but have pretty much conceded at this point to synthetic stocks on all my serious hunting or carry guns. Occasionally I've even seen a wood stock warp enough to check or fracture, which in the wrong place can put an end to your hunt. Of course, as has been said, to some extent you can mitigate those problems by sealing and bedding good wood, but you won't eliminate them.

With stiff, well fit synthetic stocks wet won't be an issue. Another advantage of synthetics is that you can keep the bedding tolerances very tight with a minimum of material. That keeps weight down and also helps keep debris out of the barrel channel etc, which can also change POI.

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
plastic schmastic - new orleans pimps like plastic guns walnut reigns nice rifle gunmaker

You are a sick man, butchloc! roger

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
I think it depends more on the look you want than the material from which it is made. By that I mean, if you do as gunmaker suggests and remove the 1/8" and use devcon, or whatever, you have basically made a synthetic stock base with a wood covering. So you could also call it synthetic, since that is all that the metal touches...synthetic.

I also happen to prefer that method. I love the beauty of wood, with the proper synthetic bedding and sealing. I don't think anyone can make a totally synthetic stock that looks as good as wood. And I agree with Chic, if you are worried about scratching it, buy synthetic.

+1
Well said Larry

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by 458Win:
Military snipers around the globe agree as well.

Carlos Hathcock might disagree. Wasn't he in Desert Storm? Just kidding

gunmaker

quote:

If still alive Carlos Hathcock would be the first to tout the virtues of synthetic stocks.

Phil Shoemaker

When Carlos Hatcock was alive and teaching after the war he considered the Steyr SSG w/ a synthetic stock the best out of the box sinper rifle.

DR B

My point was Hathcock did it with a wood stocked m70 30-06 Winchester with a ton of bedding compound, free floated in a rain soaked jungle. I doubt many hunters literally drag their rifles through that much rain and mud and make that ONE shot count.

Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

And again and again.

Now my fingers are tired. Sounds pretty reliable to me.

If someone has a rifle he really loves and hunts in different environments, I would just have several stocks and change them depending on the needs....

I prefer laminates the most... but if I really have to get out in crappy weather and hard stock banging hunting.. then the choice for me, if available is a Hogue Rubber Stock... good grip in wet weather, it bounces and doesn't feel like crap, like most laminates do...and yet their price is competitive...

I have a batch of short action Rugers in Stainless, chambered in 22.250, 243 and 260 Rem... I have one thumbhole shortaction stock, the factory laminates, and 2 hogue rubber stocks..three screws and you can change stocks.. and the Hogues are bedded at the action... or full length bedded for double the price.. the barrel is also free floated on the Hogue, as the channel is made to handle a heavy magnum action contour....

quote:

My point was Hathcock did it with a wood stocked m70 30-06 Winchester with a ton of bedding compound, free floated in a rain soaked jungle. I doubt many hunters literally drag their rifles through that much rain and mud and make that ONE shot count.

Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

And again and again.

Now my fingers are tired. Sounds pretty reliable to me.

gunmaker

My point is he would have used a synthetic stock if one had been available!!!!!

Some people are obviously educated beyond their intelligence!!!!

So, to take this one step further, is the RUGER factory synthetic stock any good? Will it hold its zero? Thanks for all the responses thus far.

The ruger like most of the factory synthetics fit the toy plastic stock description. However it will more than likely work just fine for you.