I would like to setup a pair of rifles using the Montana 1999 PH action. One in 375 H&H and the other a 416 Rigby. What barrel contours do you recommend for each caliber?

As a priority I want both rifles to balance well. Each has to be of a proper weight to keep recoil at a reasonable level while at the same time not so heavy to limit portability. I am guessing something like a #5 contour at around 4lbs for the 375 & a #6 for the 416 at around 4.5lbs.

Your thoughts?
Dave

Lothar~Walther grind barrels in Mauser Model B and some Englisg Express rifle contours. Both were designed with balance in mind.......and they look MUCH better than the standard American tapers.

Jack,

I checked out the Lothar Walther site but, they don't have much in the way of pictures. Would you be able to post a pic. or two of the barrel types you feel appropriate for my project?

Many Thanks,
Dave

I measured a barrel I have in the shop.
The Lothar Walter 404 ne pre threaded & chambered barrel is 25.6" long & weighs 3Lbs. 5 oz.
Muzzle---.750
B--------.900 ( 4" from breech end )
D--------1.150 ( At breech )
Hope this is of some assistance.

Jack is spot on. These barrels are really well balanced & very graceful looking. ( well proportioned)

[ 02-21-2003, 19:19: Message edited by: D Humbarger ]

Does Lothar Walther sell direct? If not, who is a big distributor? Finally, do they sell long chambered barrels? I have never understood the concept of companies which sell short chambered barrels. You save a little wear on your reamer, but you still need one and you need one that matches their reamer and reaming setup.

They sell to dealers only. The chambered barrels are a wee bit deep.

Doug,

Thanks for posting the barrel dimensions. This brings to mind another question. How important are barrel dimensions in general when trying to construct a rifle(s) where correct balance and feel are top priorities?

I receintly read an article by John Barsnes describing D'Arcy Echols Legend rifles. One of the points John made was how the rifle he tested felt like Harry Selby's 416 Rigby. In other words like a Rigby Mauser Express/Working rifle. (By the way this Rigby Mauser feel was what D'Arcy was trying to achieve.)I have heard similar statments time and time again. This intrigued me. What is it about the old English Stalking/Express rifles that sets them apart? Most importantly what critical aspects/dimensions should I consider to have my rifles built to mirror the feel of the old Express rifles?

I truly want these rifles to feel alive in my hands.

Thanks,
Dave

[ 02-22-2003, 05:54: Message edited by: DavidC ]

David C---

The "feel" of an English Express rifle is a very elusive thing.

I studied Ross Seyfried's 416 Rigby #20 so long he got nervous!

As with their shotguns, the three secrets are:

1)Half the weight of the gun is between your hands. How *that* weight is distributed determines how the gun swings. Shift to the rear for fast and toward the front for smooth.

2) The hands should be as close to the "center-line" of the rifle as possible. Draw a curved line from the center of the butt to the center of the wrist and to the center of the muzzle. That's the "handling center line". It's the linear center of gravity. A scope raises the line drastically.....heavier, higher scopes makes it handle like a post hole digger.

3) Cast off. A quarter inch cast off makes a gun feel like a part of your body. It's truly amazing.

To my rather jaundiced eye the contours of the heavy express magazine rifle barrels are the very best ever done.........and Lothar-Walthar are to be congratulated for picking them up.

I did a 375H&H not long ago with an original taper H&H barrel from L-W that was REALLY nice.

Purdy, Westley-Richards, Rigby, Jefferey, and others made some really well shaped and handling rifles.

The Continental method of mounting the rear sight on a sleeve that blends with the barrel is also a very fine application of the gunmaker's art.

Jack,

I was hoping you would reply! Well that is alot to think about for sure. There is so much more to proper firearm construction than I ever imagined. The brillance of the design comes to the floor rather quickly once the principle & rational are explained. Thanks for taking the time!!

1.) 50% of the weight between your hands so I would guess 25% at each end? I believe I read that in one of your posts some time ago. The 50% then needs to be addressed as oriented foward or backward...My question is then how does one make that assesment? My rifles are going to be used for DG primarily more so with the 416. Therefore, is it more important to be fast(rear), smooth(foward) or is it personal taste and depends which *feels* better to you? I really like the idea of a smooth handling rifle.

2.)This concept is totaly new to me. I have never heard of the *handling center line*. What it does make me reconsider is scope options. Basically, whats the trade off in balance & feel with a scope? I want both rifles to wear scopes in detachable mounts but, I also want to be aware of cause & effect of the scope and mounting system I choose. Is there a way to *counter* to some degree the upset balance caused by mounting a scope?

3.)Is the quarter inch cast off a standard or does one need to be fitted for proper cast?

I'll look into the LW Heavy Express rifle barrels. It will be interesting to see how they compair to the American barrel tapers.

Thanks,
Dave

[ 02-22-2003, 08:04: Message edited by: DavidC ]

IMHO, The m70 FWT contour, scaled up to 1.300" diameter wedding ring and about .800 at muzzle 23" long

Davidc, I am building a 9.3x62 with a LW barrel, I ordered the Varmint weight. I assumed this would be appropriate, the larger calibers on the LW page, i.e. 404, 458, etc., are all in this varmint weight contour.

Arts, LW sells direct, contact is Woody Woodall, lotharwalther@mindspring.com. I recently received my 9.3x62 barrel, $165.32 delivered. -Fred

Mike,

I would rather wait for the PH for a couple reasons. As Rod of MRC pointed out they are constantly tweaking the design of the M1999. Jack Belk had one at the ACGG show in Reno and alot of the best smith gave it the once over. That being said I would guess any worth while recommendations made by the these top smiths would be present in the PH model from the get go. BTW, I believe the PH is to be released the end of the year. Secondly, the PH will hold 5+1 in 375H&H and 4+1 in 416 Rigby. The M1999 will only hold 3+1 in H&H and I don't *think* it is large enough for the 416 w/o alot of modifications.

Fred,

$165.32 ....Delivered!!! Thats a great price! One question thought. Does L~W produce different grades of barrels? If so what grade is your barrel?

Much Thanks,
Dave

Does the Mauser Model B barrel contour differ greatly from the Krieger #6 ??

Thanks

Does the Mauser Model B barrel contour differ greatly from the Krieger #6 ??

Thanks

Rancher---

I don't know what a Krieger #6 looks like.

The Mauser M-B came in seven different contours depending on caliber and how the sights were mounted. I don't know how many or which ones L~W are doing.

Notice sometimes how much better a quarter rib looks on an English rifle as compared with American.......it's the contour that's the difference. And it took me YEARS to figure that out!!

$165.32 ....Delivered!!! Thats a great price! One question thought. Does L~W produce different grades of barrels? If so what grade is your barrel?

Much Thanks,
Dave[/QB][/QUOTE]

Dave, I don't know if they have different barrels by quality. I bought mine off the link below, the Mauser page. Following that is a few pages of numerous other contours, unthreaded and unchambered, you can obtain them that way or have LW do the work for you. Don't know the pricing on them. Further on they have octogon barrels.

I chose the varmint weight after measuring a friend's Ruger .338, looked like what I am trying to accomplish, an "Africa" style rifle. Took a month to get the barrel, had to come from Germany.

This is my first rifle project, haven't the faintest idea what I am doing. Will have to depend heavily on the forum folks for advice in the months to come. -Fred

http://www.lothar-walther.com/us/