Hello everyone,

I recently went through an insurance claim process, my first ever, to recoup some of the value of a firearm that was destroyed. I wanted to share some advice that may help you if you're ever in that situation, and some that could help you be better prepared for it or even avoid it. This is mostly for other gun owners, guys who might be getting work done on their guns, but I think gunsmiths may take something from it as well. I feel I was fortunate, I got a good adjuster who was if not pro gun (couldn't tell for sure, but he enjoyed watching the shooting in the olympics) he definitely wasn't anti-gun and was very fortunate that I had an appraisal from a gunsmith before the loss. There are some things I didn't do right that could have made it worse if I'd gotten an adjuster that wasn't so friendly, hopefully I can forewarn you of those.

My Situation:
I had a custom rifle being built. The usual story, one of a kind, irreplaceable, etc. The metalwork was pretty much done and it was at a gunsmiths for stocking, final assembly, bluing and the little touches. The rifle was utterly destroyed (totaled if you will) while in possession of the gunsmith. Turned out the gunsmith had no insurance (turns out this isn't as uncommon as you'd hope). In the end my only recourse was to file a claim against my home owners insurance and hope for the best.

The Good & the Lucky
-(Good)years ago, when I was single and had more $$ in guns I chose AAA Homeowners insurance. The reason was that they did not have a limit on value of firearms. There was no additional rider I needed or anything. Even though I never had any claims I never left. My brother worked both as a paralegal for a firm usually against the insurance companies, and as an adjuster for a big company for years. He always has maintained that AAA were some of the best to deal with across the board

-(Good)Because I enjoyed the process so much and had a good relationship with the gunsmith (he was my friend and was doing a his best work for me, showboating) I had NUMEROUS pictures and detailed correspondence regarding what had been done on the project before it went to the stockmaker

-(Lucky)I got an open minded adjuster

-(Good & Lucky)I had the gun examined previously by a 3rd (2nd if you go in order) gunsmith. He was able to provide me with an estimated value of the action with the work done. This was possible the biggest help in the whole thing. The adjuster had to get an independent appraisal based on what I provided, thankfully he took my suggestion to contact ACGG because as I told him they had standards for membership and this was top shelf work. When the ACGG member gunsmith got back to the adjuster the value was actually slightly higher, but very close, and took into consideration a parts list that the first evaluation didn't account for. I think this point deserves it's own thread really, and I may do that. it speaks directly to the importance of consistency and standards among gunsmiths, not only does it help in cases like this, it protects and enhances their reputations. I want to point out that the first estimate came from a non-guild member, I don't think it is necessary to be a member to keep high standards, in fact I think it makes the profession more reputable when gunsmiths that are not members of the same group can be so close in their valuations of another's work. Another testament to AAA, when the independent evaluation they had done came back higher they went with the higher amount.


The Bad
-I had a 1000 deductible that was subtracted
-I have a slight increase to my premium for 3 years (will amount probably to about another grand)

Additional advice out of my experience
-Hold any gunsmith you do work with to the same standards you would hopefully hold yourself or any other contractor to. Find out if they have insurance (I did a small survey here and was surprised by the results of how many didn't have it). Do not allow embarrassment to keep you from asking, and assume that because of the value of the guns they work on that they obviously must carry insurance. You may ultimately for whatever reason still use a gunsmith that doesn't have insurance, however, you'll have made a voluntary and informed decision to do so

-If you find yourself in the same spot as me (my sympathies ahead of time) -- Whatever promises are made to cut you a break on work later or encouragements to NOT file a claim to help the person out (there is something called subrogation, meaning if the insurance company pays you they are going to go after the person that SHOULD have paid you to try and recoup their money) do not be dissuaded. Of course you may have more money than I do and be able to absorb the hit, so this is meant to the regular guy that may only ever put together enough for one custom gun.

-I did not have receipts or cancelled checks for most of it, this could have potentially made it much more difficult and affected the final outcome. keep as much of this documentation as you can, where you can get to it. I'm not a very organized person, one of my numerous failings

-obviously pick a good insurance company and know what the policy details are

-If you are a gunsmith in my opinion there are only two choices that could leave you with a clear conscious; 1. Get insurance. Really I almost think this as the only option and that otherwise a person should not take in valuable guns that don't belong to them. However, I see a 2. in that you don't have insurance, tell potential clients this, and sure as shit discount your rates to reflect what you're saving and the danger to your customer. I have guns that are just standard hunting rifles, not worth more than any new gun off the shelf, that I would be willing to save money on and take a calculated risk.


Red

all good information and it sounds correct (except for subjugation, did you mean subrogation?), BUT...

what happened to the rifle?

I have a rider on my home owner's policy that I update annually.

I think that NRA offers $2,500 now and that won't cover the cost of most custom rifles.

I would like some more info on NRA insurance, specifically the "proper coverage" mentioned.

The NRA basic policy is about worthless. My friend lost his whole collection. The limit was $1,000.00 but broken down to $100 per gun. Then since they were at his friend's house they paid nothing.

I have an older Harley-Davidson with an "Agreed to Value" policy. It is insured for higher than BlueBook, but the premium reflects that.

airgun,

Try here. I have had two of my friends lose a firearm or (in one case) several firearms and they had purchased the 'extra' insurance through NRA.
This is where they got theirs.

http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/armscareplus.htm

I would not even think of having my doors open without insurance. I have had two BIG claims in the last 6 months, both during shipping. One broken stock, one stolen. I use Core-Vens and can not recommend them enough.

http://www.corevensguninsurance.com/

Ask for Tim Harstock. Great people!
Steve

quote:

Originally posted by delloro:
all good information and it sounds correct (except for subjugation, did you mean subrogation?), BUT...

what happened to the rifle?

quite right, subrogation, sorry after 10 years of marriage I've been thoroughly subjugated.

The rifle was burnt up.

quote:

You obviously think highly of your guns.

Well I thought pretty highly of that one! I hope all the custom gun owners keep thinking really highly of their guns, otherwise there'd be a lot of talented machinists doing something else

quote:

If the gun had been destroyed in your own home, you would not have been in any different bargaining position.

Correct, except I wouldn't have also lost 2 grand towards deductible and a 3 year hike in rates. Well, and I'd be living in my travel trailer and going through hell. I don't envy anybody losing their home.

quote:

My advise, insure your own firearms seperately..NRA has a retty good program.. With the proper coverage,. they are insured anywhere and covered for just about any possible circumsance.

Ask anout personal property floater. The days of broad Homeowners coverage for firearms have been over for decades.

Great advice, I am going to look into it, I think unfortunately most of us never think about these things until it is too late. I think before people have any small assets worth any money they need to find out all their options for protecting it.

I have one of those stated value policies on my 51' pickup too, as more work is done I have to call and update things, rates adjust accordingly. better safe than sorry.

Red

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:...most of us never think about these things until it is too late....

truer words never spoken.

I have Colo Farm Bureau Ins for H/O.
She wanted a full list of mod & ser#'s but ,the
premium runs about another hundred a yr for
$30,000 coverage.
It's the incidentals that have been stolen and they've
paid well other than deductible and depreciation.
What burned me though was most of this theft was brand
new stuff I'd bought just before my health failed.
Still deducted for age.
Some over 4 grand, paid out $3300 or such.
I have NRA increased coverage for the guns themselves.
So far have never lost one.
George

quote:

My advise, insure your own firearms seperately.

Its my understanding that DagoRed was in the process of having a high-grade custom rifle built,
If he had instead been in the process of having his high grade rifle built at say H&H, WR or Purdeys,
you think they would leave him out in the cold, if his gun order got destroyed in a workshop fire?

IF one has a shop that survives by servicing, repairing or manufacturing bespoke items, be it firearms,fine watches or motor vehicles,
a responsible business model will have insurance to cover the possibility of shop fire that destroys customers goods.

One custom gunbuilder I have dealt with, told me how proud he was that he owned all the expensive manufacturing machinery in his shop.
Yet has well established himself for having an atrocious dishonest and irresponsible record as a business operator.

Excellent post, Red. Thanks.