Replaced barrel on an ancient takedown. The way the math works out, to have the breechface touch the boltface, while as the same time allowing correct headspace, I needed a very slight rim recess about 5 thou. I note on the original barrel, no such recess. Nor have I seen any recess on a similar 1894. Is the barrel not supposed to touch the boltface? Or is the headspace supposed to be super sloppy? Or am I missing something?

Compared to bolt rifles, 94s are a bit on the sloppy size, and, no, the boltface does not touch the barrel.

That is why you often see primers backed out on 30-30s; the brass takes all the pressure and there is a relatively huge amount of excessive headspace. PO Ackley did tests where he remove the locking lug; fired with no problems.
I recommend you leave it in though.

The old pre 64 Model 94's were designed different that what we normally think of.

First Winchester made three sizes of locking blocks. A zero, a + .005" and a + .010". This was so when assembled at the factory they normally used the zero and sometimes the + .005 to adjust the head space.

As the rifles were used and returned to the factory then the +.010" came into play. I have worked on factory rebuilt rifles, that have had the +.010" bolt in them.

Later in the mid 50's Winchester did a run of 20" carbine barrels in 30 WCF and 32 Spl that had an extra +.020" on the very end of the treaded shank. This way as they were again rebuilt the rear of the shank could be lathe turned to adjust headspace.

This gives you an idea just how Winchester corrected the headspace in these rifles over the years, and how much parts would stretch and wear over the years.

Most of the time it is the rear of the breech bolt in the area where the firing pin comes out the rear of it that takes all the wear. Looking at that area, you will see marks on both sides of the firing pin, that is the hammer rubbing on it, then the wider lower rub mark is the locking block rubbing.

If I recall Winchester wanted about .005" gap between the rear of the barrel shank and the front edge of the breech bolt to allow debris thru.

The funny part is on the old takedown rifles, as the threads wear ( receiver and barrel ), then the three adjustment screws under the forarm wood come into play to push the parts further apart. ( which increases the headspace ) but it would tighten the half's back together, ( go figger that one out )

When we used to rebuild these rifles ( 70's thru 90's ), we would set the barrel / breech bolt gap at .005" and call it good. That normally put your measured headspace at .005" to .008"

Just my 2 cents

JW

OK well it seems they left a gap to allow for some crud buildup on the barrel breech that might otherwise stop the bolt from moving all the way into battery and also block the hammer. I am a bolt guy and in that world you normally want the barrel to bottom out on something, eg the action shoulder on a Mauser, or the front ring on an Enfield. This takes any play in the threads out of the equation. On this action, there is a shoulder but putting the barrel on the shoulder puts the shank into contact with the bolt. The barrel dia is not much larger than the shank dia so not much of a shoulder on the barrel. And since I am working with a takedown, the threads are a bit sloppy anyway so I cut my barrel so it bottoms out on the shoulder and touches the bolt. Thus I had to cut a slight rim recess in the barrel. I don't see any downside to this practice if the gun is kept clean. Seems to close snugly on a cartridge and the hammer falls normally. The ejector cut had to be a tad deeper to get the ejector over the rim.

Now I have another question. Can one modify the feed rails (they call them "cartridge guides") from a 30-30 to take a 38-55? I read that you have to replace them but the parts are not available. Seems to me a little grinding is all that is needed. I assume these parts are hardened.

Winchester only made one size of cartridge guides for the 94, they fit the 25-35 to the grand 38-55.

IF you do enough work and read enough the very first 38-55 Left hand guides has a hortz slot in it. A U shaped spring lay in the slot with a portion of the U sticking out to rub on the side of the case about the neck to prevent the straight wall case from popping upright and perhaps jamming the action.

This slot and spring was dropped about 1900 as they found out it was not needed.

Clean things up and try some 38-55 ammo thru the action to double check , but most of the time it will feed just fine

JW

I must say JW you are a fountain of knowledge.

Just waiting for a couple of magazine parts and the rifle will be done.