I've got a pre war Griffin and Howe 1903 sporter in 30-06. At some point a genius decided to have the metal hot blued. Fortunately the metal was not ruined by buffing or polishing. The wood does not appear to have been messed with, but the finish is very dull/dark/dirty looking. I can see some really nice fiddleback under the finish. I'm looking to have the metal restored and properly rust blued and the wood freshened up a little. Any recommendations on a restoration specialist who might have experience with pre war sporters?

Thank you.

I’ve been just where you are when a genius did the same thing to an early (N0. 119) G&H 30-06. This person used a buffing wheel and rounded off everything, then hot blued the rifle. This rifle has a half octagon barrel and it took more hours than I could pay anyone to fix.

What vintage rifle is yours, barrel number?

I did all the wood and metal work myself and when done I sent it off to be rust blued.

For the stock which was very dirty I used only pure linseed oil 0000 steel wool. Cleaned off all the crap and left the nice patina that was under it.

What is wrong with the metal, can you post a picture?

I’ll take some pictures of the rifle, don’t have any before ones.

I only got these two before the battery died so can post more later if you want.

try Griffin & Howe?

http://www.griffinhowe.com/

Nice, nice rifle Petrov. Could you please post a photo showing the whole buttstock including buttplate? Thanks for sharing.

quote:

Originally posted by LJRivard:
Nice, nice rifle Petrov. Could you please post a photo showing the whole buttstock including buttplate? Thanks for sharing.

I’ll post pictures when my camera battery is charged. I wish that I had taken good pictures of the rifle when I first got it. Every hole was tapered and the length of the rib rounded off. I kept track of my time but around forty hours I threw the paper in the trash.

I made a couple of mistakes when I did mine and would like to help others avoid them.

Thanks Mike. Barrel number is just over 1000. Will PM you with the details when I get home tonight. The metal looks to have been lightly polished (but not polished along the length of the barrel, rather polished perpendicular to it) and hot blued. The lettering on the barrel is very crisp and there is no rust or pitting. The bolt does not appear to have been messed with at all, but the receiver, barrel and bottom metal were obviously hot blued. I'm not up to doing the restoration work myslef.

No PM, you can email me if you wish at mjpetrov@acsalaska.net

My money is on number 1053.

Michael,

That's a beautiful restoration of a fantastic rifle. The photography is not too bad either!

I can't see from the pictures. Is that a full length octogon barrel, or half octagon, half round? If half octagon does the rib run full-length? If there's any chance you can take some more pictures concentrating on the barrel and front sight it would be great.

thanks,
- stu

Chisana,

Maybe a call the Nathan Heineke would be worth while. He worked at Griffin & Howe for a number of years as well as in the British gun trade before going out on his own. He builds rifles in the G&H style.



Best Regards,
Dave

Chisana,

Maybe a call the Nathan Heineke would be worth while? He worked at Griffin & Howe for a number of years as well as in the British gun trade before going out on his own. He builds rifles in the G&H style.

N.L. Heineke

Best Regards,
Dave

Thanks Dave. Looks like Nathan is doing some interesting work. I appreciate the link.

Mike, I'll shoot you an email this weekend. Haven't had a chance to take photos yet. No. 119 looks like a very nice rifle!

Thanks.

The barrel is octagon to round with an integral rib and front sight base. These type barrels are found on early G&H’s and made in Germany, bottom will be marked “Germany†and “Kruppâ€.

A word about early G&H numbering. When they first started out they tried different numbering and for a while settled on blocks of number for calibers. So number 119 would have been the 18th 30-06 made.

101-150………...…..30-06
151-200……….……35 Whelen
201-250……….……400 Whelen
251-300…………….7X57mm
301-350…………… 250-3000
351-400……….……25 Whelen
401-500………….…30-06

Man that is a nice rifle! Proof that artistically sound guns are timeless. I would be tickled to have her in my safe.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc_Stokeld:
Man that is a nice rifle! Proof that artistically sound guns are timeless. I would be tickled to have her in my safe.

Thanks,

I wish that you could have seen it when I first got it. In the words of the man I got it from “worse than well usedâ€. The buffing or wire wheel they used on it rounded everything off. I remember spending about two days working on the bolt-safety shroud.

If I could do it over I would have had the caliber markings recut.

Michael, thanks for the extra photos. Exactly what I wanted to see.

- stu

Here are a few pics of the rifle I am looking to restore.

Mike, my recollection of the G&H number was a little off, it is 1260 and the 1903 action is in the 1.405 million range making it early 1932 production. The rifle has a 24" barrel, with barrel band front sling swivel, barrel band front sight with Marbles bead, Lyman 48 rear, horn forend tip, steel grip cap and the standard G&H trapdoor butt plate.

Mike I was wondering if this is typical bolt and follower treatment for a rifle of this era?

My photography skills are not anywhere close to those of Mike or SDH.

A good looking rifle that should clean up with little to no problems. The number is in my database but noting listed on it.

The cross hatching on the bolt and rail are G&H for this time period. I can't tell about the follower. My first question is can the original cross hatching on the rail be there if it was hot blued, could the barrel have been pulled and blued? Can you post a picture of the bottom metal?

DO NOT let anyone strip off the finish on that stock. More later on cleaning it up.

Is the action a reddish color?

Thanks Mike. The bolt has the crosshatching, but the receiver rails and follower are engine turned. There is the slightest hint of crosshatching on the rear of the follower where it was cut down to allow for feeding with the magazine cut off "on" and the magazine empty. The action and trigger guard are reddish. I assume that is from hot blueing the nickel steel, the floor plate is not so reddish. The bolt itself does not appear to have been messed with and the checkering on the knob is very sharp. The bolt sleeve looks to have been polished and hot blued. Definitely will not do anything with the stock.

Check your PM's

Michael,

That is a beautiful rifle now that you have restored it. There is something special about a rifle like that with iron sights that a scoped rifle can not match. That stock is excellent.
Kudos on a great job of restoring it.

Don

Thanks guys,

I now have a lot more respect for the folks who do this type of work. There was no place that a power tool could be used so everything was hand work, hours and hours of hand work. I’ve sat on the sidelines and told people how to do restorations on these classic rifles for years so I now have a little better understanding of the time it takes to do it right.

If you watched “Antique Roadshow†you had seen one of the Keno brothers tell an owner of a highboy that it’s a wonderful work of art and worth $150,000. Then tells them that if they had not spent the money to have it refinished it would be a $500,000 highboy. IMO the same applies to classic rifles, more have been ruined by good intentions then anything else. I’ve seen a lot of these that had a little ware and the owner has it buffed and hot blued. OK, sorry off my soap box ;-).

Michael you are so right. The first rule of the gunsmith should be the same as the physician's: First, do no harm.

It's interesting how a well made rifle will never lose its luster. Monte carlo combs, white line spacers, skip line and fleur de lis checkering, etc., etc. Fashions come and go, but good taste endures. It would have been best for all of us to have bought a G&H or the like in the 50s, 60s or 70s, and to have just hung on to it. Or to buy one now, and just hang on to it!

It's like the old guy with the closet full of double breasted, pin-striped, worsted wool suits said when he was asked why he didn't give them to Goodwill: "I'm just waiting for them to come back into style."

Great rifles!

May I do a little hijack of the thread? I would like to share with everyone one rifle that I think says a lot for the craftsman of the 1920’s & 30â€s. A 1903 with a Niedner barrel and Shelhamer stock. No engraving, nothing fancy just clean lines and simple elegance. It's eighty years old, is it back in style?

quote:

is it back in style?

NO! It never went out of style. Some folks just took a divergent path. There is something timeless about any work of art and these rifes are just that; even if they are tools meant to be used. This thread has really been intertaining and educational. Thanks to both you Michael and Chisana for sharing these and the 35 Whelen.

In the 1920s a G&H, Niedner/Shelhamer or Hoffman on a 1903 Springfield or 1898 Mauser action with a Lyman 48 was not just the best looking rifle available but was the most efficient hunting instrument money could buy for North America and for that matter for anything worldwide except African and Indian pachyderms, where the double rifle ruled. Today those American classics work just as well as they ever did and give away very little in effectiveness to the scoped stainless plastic wonders that so beloved by the trendy gun writers.

It's all about lines, and the lines of that Shelhammer rifle are as good as it get's. Beautiful art never goes out of style.
I have a buddy up here who is from Dwagiac, Shelhammer's home town. He was a friend of Shelhammer and bought several of Shelhammer's rifles, which he still owns. Not bad purchases by my friend.

Don

That Niedner-Shelhamer is impeccable. There is nothing on that rifle that should be changed.

Thanks for the superb photos, Chisana and Michael.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/rfs/325209978.html

Tom Shelhamer's house is for sale.

Tom kept a record of all the stocks he made after leaving Niedner’s. These records are now being preserved and someday will be available to the public.

For those who could not afford a new piece of wood and new Niedner barrel, you could have Niedner do this to your NRA sporter.

Shelhamer Sporter

I tried inserting the picture, but it was way to big. If anyone knows how to properly size it and re-post, feel free to do so.

John

Shelhamer NRA Sporter from gasgunner...

Thanks to all for the pictures and info.

Nice to know there are others to whom these works are meaningful.

GV

Thanks GV.

John

A beautiful rifle John.
Butch