I have read many times that the 7x57 could be a much better performing caliber if it could be loaded to a modern specs - if it were, it would be superior to the 7mm-08.

And.....the manufacturers that do load the 7x57 caliber, load it to lower pressures because of the many old actions out there that can't handle moren reloading pressures.

Is this problem with old military actions an urban myth or true??

If true, are the loads in reloading manuals worked up for old or modern rifles?

I have a 1909 peruvian mauser rebarreled to 7x57 - can this action handle modern reloading pressures?

I read nothing but praise for this caliber and also that it cannot be loaded to its potential.

What is the straight scoop on this much repeated story??

Thanks for your feedback in advance.

Happy Holidays!!!!

The 7x57 is a wonderful cartridge.Its pressures vary from 43,000psi to 47,000psi.In the 120gr bullet weight it does out preform the 7mm-08. And is close to it in other grain bullets. The small ring mauser actions aren,t made to rebuild into other bigger calibers as is the 98 mausers. Action lenght is another reason for not the best. Reloading manuals now days are well within safe guidelines as pressure goes. Due to all the manufactors being alert to liability lawsuits they tone down loading tables somewhat from years ago. Some older manuals starting loads are max. loads now days. Feel free to load your 7x57 within the manual guidlines and you should have no problem. Be happy with ou 7x57 caliber, as its a good proven cartridge. hope i helped van

That is an 1898 type Mauser and will never know the difference between 51kpsi 7mm Mauser and 61kpsi 7mm-08.

It looks alot like a 1903 Turk made in Oberndorf.
I have pushed them until the primer falls out of 7mm, 8mm, 223, and 7.62x25mm brass with no setback, and yet 4 in 100 will have set back when I get them surplus.
They may have variations in heat treat, or shot with a barrel full of rain water. Who knows what happeded over 100 years.

The Spanish made M93s uniformly look second rate.
They all seem to have been trashed. I have never seen on that did not have a severely pitted bolt face

quote:

Originally posted by Riodot:
I have read many times that the 7x57 could be a much better performing caliber if it could be loaded to a modern specs - if it were, it would be superior to the 7mm-08.

And.....the manufacturers that do load the 7x57 caliber, load it to lower pressures because of the many old actions out there that can't handle moren reloading pressures.

Is this problem with old military actions an urban myth or true??

If true, are the loads in reloading manuals worked up for old or modern rifles?

I have a 1909 peruvian mauser rebarreled to 7x57 - can this action handle modern reloading pressures?

I read nothing but praise for this caliber and also that it cannot be loaded to its potential.

What is the straight scoop on this much repeated story??

Thanks for your feedback in advance.

Happy Holidays!!!!

Nah. That 1909 is a piece of crap! PM me for my address and I'll get rid of it for you for a small fee before someone gets hurt.


Most of the problems with modern loads in old mausers involve the pre-1898 small ring actions,
such as the 1893 and 1895 versions. The 1894 and 1896 Swedes could probably handle it, but who wants to find out when so many good 1898s are available?

quote:

Originally posted by Don Slater:

Nah. That 1909 is a piece of crap! PM me for my address and I'll get rid of it for you for a small fee before someone gets hurt.

I'm so embare-assed that I am building up such a piece of crap.
To save myself from further embarassment I have decided to hunt with it on another (dark)continent were no one will see.

Riodot,
The SAMMI specs for the 7X57 have a reduced pressure for the reasons you mentioned and rightrully so. The handloader with a modern firearm including the 98's can kick the 7mm08's ass even with lower pressures. There was a article on the 7X57 in an old handloader magazine but it was over 10 years ago. Check Ken Waters Pet Loads, he wrings out all you can out of a round.

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
Riodot,
The SAMMI specs for the 7X57 have a reduced pressure for the reasons you mentioned and rightrully so. The handloader with a modern firearm including the 98's can kick the 7mm08's ass even with lower pressures. There was a article on the 7X57 in an old handloader magazine but it was over 10 years ago. Check Ken Waters Pet Loads, he wrings out all you can out of a round.

Chic,

Thank you for that info - I have been planning to pick up that book. You just gave me the final reason I needed to get it.

Lance

It is probably my favorite caliber and the gun I take most often for deer/pig hunting. I load 150gn Partitions to 2700fps in my FN commercial. I have pushed those to 2800,but why? At 2700fps it has 1500fpe at 300yds. That is plenty for deer and probably enough for elk. When I first got it I shot two pigs one 70lds and one 160lbs and s corsican sheep. All were shot with Federal FL 140 PTs at around 100yds. The 70lb pig was shot through both shoulders and the 160 through neck(spine) briskett(two ribs). Both exited! The sheed was shot at an angle and broke a rib on both sides. It traversed around 18" of internal organs and also exited. After I got home and chronied that load, it was only going in the low to mid 2400fps. It is a great cartridge. BTW, Ken waters has stated that even with the larger capacity, the 7x57 does not out perform the 7-08. capt david

The 7x57 will outperform the 7-08, if loaded to the same pressure, just as a 6mm Rem will outperform the .243. It is a bigger case, that's all. By the way, the 6mm has the 7x57-/257 case as a parent. Of course there will never be enough difference any of us would notice the effect on game.

I have a Kar98 in 7x57 that I load with 140g TSX in front of 49g of RE-19. Definitely a submax load, and, being shot out of a 19" (cut down) military barrel, I can hit a pie plate with it at 250 yards all day. The buck I shot last week didn't know how fast the bullet was going, he just fell down....

Great caliber....

MKane160

quote:

Originally posted by Riodot:
And.....the manufacturers that do load the 7x57 caliber, load it to lower pressures because of the many old actions out there that can't handle modern reloading pressures.

Is this problem with old military actions an urban myth or true?? It's the belief that it's as hard as it can be pushed in all known military rifles. Many others may handle it well. Tests with some pre-98 Mausers handled 100,000 pounds pressure without blowing up. Frankly...I don't think there is a correct answer here at all.

If true, are the loads in reloading manuals worked up for old or modern rifles? Mnay reloading manuals say specifically what actions the data is for as with the 45-70 and a few others. Hornady's manual has 7 X 57 loads for the M-70 Winchester and that date seems light to me as well. If you have a modern action you can load it just like any other round.....load it until you see signs of pressure and then back off a few grains.

What is the straight scoop on this much repeated story??

Thanks for your feedback in advance.

Happy Holidays!!!!

I added some comments in bold .....

Just my own personal opinion now....the 7 X 57 is an obsolete round. It's too long for today's short actions and don't keep up with the 280 Rem in the long actions.

It's a handloaders proposition and if you have one it's a splendid old round doing almost everything needed to have done.

But, who is chambering for it?.....anyone besides custom folks? It's saving grace is pure nostalgia and it's nearly at the top of the list in that category.

It should have died out years ago with the 6.5 X 57 and similar rounds....but it's one fighter and ain't dieing off soon! But still, it's only advantage is nostalgia.

quote:

Originally posted by Riodot:

quote:

Originally posted by Don Slater:

Nah. That 1909 is a piece of crap! PM me for my address and I'll get rid of it for you for a small fee before someone gets hurt.

I'm so embare-assed that I am building up such a piece of crap.
To save myself from further embarassment I have decided to hunt with it on another (dark)continent were no one will see.

Can't blame a guy for trying!

It will be a good one.

Here is a pic of my obsolete 275 Rigby (7X57). I consider it a classic round that with todays bullets is probably even better now than when Bell was shooting elephants with one many years ago.

It has a 22" barrel and will push a 150 grain Nosler bullet at 2850 or a little better any day of the week. I have actually chrongraphed some loads that were faster but settled on 2850 as a good place to stop. It is built on an intermediate 98 Mauser and it has the perfect magazine box length for the round.

I have had several 280s over the course of the years and could never tell they did anything the 7X57 couldn't do for all practical purposes. They are all gone but this rifle will never leave. I may even have it buried with me.

quote:

Originally posted by Idared:
Here is a pic of my obsolete 275 Rigby (7X57). I consider it a classic round that with todays bullets is probably even better now than when Bell was shooting elephants with one many years ago.

It has a 22" barrel and will push a 150 grain Nosler bullet at 2850 or a little better any day of the week. I have actually chrongraphed some loads that were faster but settled on 2850 as a good place to stop. It is built on an intermediate 98 Mauser and it has the perfect magazine box length for the round.

I have had several 280s over the course of the years and could never tell they did anything the 7X57 couldn't do for all practical purposes. They are all gone but this rifle will never leave. I may even have it buried with me.

Very nice looking classic! Perfect for the intermediate mauser too.

Red
I guess we will have to keep an eye on the obits and flip a coin to see who gets to dig it up.

Like the "Red Violin" it is too good to go to waste.

A truly fine specimen of classic workmanship and art.

This rifle would have been a classic regardless of the caliber it was chambered for. I'd be proud to own a 7 X 57 like this!!!

This does not change my opinion of the status of this round however. An historically best caliber ever!

quote:

Originally posted by Idared:
Here is a pic of my obsolete 275 Rigby (7X57). I consider it a classic round that with todays bullets is probably even better now than when Bell was shooting elephants with one many years ago.

It has a 22" barrel and will push a 150 grain Nosler bullet at 2850 or a little better any day of the week. I have actually chrongraphed some loads that were faster but settled on 2850 as a good place to stop. It is built on an intermediate 98 Mauser and it has the perfect magazine box length for the round.

I have had several 280s over the course of the years and could never tell they did anything the 7X57 couldn't do for all practical purposes. They are all gone but this rifle will never leave. I may even have it buried with me.

Vey nice! But, where's the rear sight?

quote:

Originally posted by Idared:
Here is a pic of my obsolete 275 Rigby (7X57). I consider it a classic round that with todays bullets is probably even better now than when Bell was shooting elephants with one many years ago.

It has a 22" barrel and will push a 150 grain Nosler bullet at 2850 or a little better any day of the week. I have actually chrongraphed some loads that were faster but settled on 2850 as a good place to stop. It is built on an intermediate 98 Mauser and it has the perfect magazine box length for the round.

I have had several 280s over the course of the years and could never tell they did anything the 7X57 couldn't do for all practical purposes. They are all gone but this rifle will never leave. I may even have it buried with me.

The lines on that rifle are just beautiful. Was it made in Wisconsin?

Idared I REALLY like that stock pattern & the checkering pattern (not to mention the entire rifle). Please tell me the details about the stock. What pattern is it?

Many thanks for the kind words about my rifle. It was actually built a bit over 15 years ago by a gunsmith who was then located in Coeur d' Alene, Idaho and was my second custom rifle built by this smith. My first was a 280 that my brother (GrandView) now owns. The stock was patterned from a sample of the old "Europeon Special" pattern that the old Rienhart-Fajean company sold. It is a simple piece of English walnut that had good grain flow and was quite dense and thus holds checkering well. The checkering was a simple pattern that does wrap around the forearm but isn't overly extravagent. It has become my most favored rifle, not just because of the rifle itself, but also because I consider the 7X57 it shoots to be one of the most over-achieving rounds I have ever owned.

It originally had a Buehler "Little Blue Peep" sight that fit on the rear scope base when the scope was removed. Partly because of aging eyes and the fact that the scope never seemed to be removed I gave the Buehler sight to my brother with the thought I would get another some day. I just never have, but now that I have been reminded again, perhaps I shall look for another.

A check through my favorite rifles show most to be of the "Classic" or maybe even "Obsolete" types. I guess sometimes it is still hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:

So what I'm hearing is that if I have one of these actions, which I do, I should not have any worries loading up to max loads.

Thanks

Lance

quote:

So what I'm hearing is that if I have one of these actions, which I do, I should not have any worries loading up to max loads.

Mine is chambered to 25-06 and I've had it for many years with no trouble.

That said, many more experienced smiths on this forum have recommended heat treating the action.

Since these guys have more experience, they deserve an audience.

Idared,
Great looking rifle. I suspect I have been to that guys shop. I can't remember his name. I liked his work but when he started talking and complaining about everything under the sun, I always started wondering why I ever went back. He had a copy of a Hoenig duplicator in his shop and was almost an exact copy and claimed he had never seen one. Interesting guy.

BTW, most folks who know and use the 7X57 recognize the value in them and being "obsolete" is certainly not one of it's attributes. How many manufacture a rifle in a caliber has little bearing on it's value and effectiveness. I have heard it is one of the most popular round in custom guns and I would bet that those customers are far from uniformed about effective and worthwhile rounds. I always just chuckle when someone tells me how poor a round it is and that there blown out magnum whiz bang super round with light speed muzzle velocity is the ultimate.

quote:

Originally posted by Riodot:


So what I'm hearing is that if I have one of these actions, which I do, I should not have any worries loading up to max loads.

Thanks

Lance

I can't think of a finer gun and caliber to do an incremental work up.

It is a better gun for that, IMHO, than my Rem700 or pre 64 W70 rifles, that get pushed to 65kpsi.

Chic

You got the right guy all right. I don't think anything about Idaho, or somedays anything at all, was any good as far as he was concerned. He did do awfully good gunsmith work, especially metalsmithing, but was lacking in a few other qualities.

I remember him building that duplicator from scratch. I have never seen a Hoenig, but I remember you telling me once before that it was a copy of one. He left the area before he had it working real good but I have since heard that he did get it working better than it started out working. I never bothered to have him do any work for me once he left the Coeur d' Lene area, and haven't heard much about him the last year or so.
******************************
Riodot

I am really sorry for hijacking your thread here. But, in answer to your question, I think you have a very nice action for making into a 7X57. If you go that route I really feel you will not be disappointed. I can't think of very many people who have been disappointed in a 7X57 that was built on a strong action. Like I mentioned above I have been amazed at what its potential is.

quote:

Originally posted by Riodot:

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:

So what I'm hearing is that if I have one of these actions, which I do, I should not have any worries loading up to max loads.

Thanks

Lance

Short answer.....Yes it will handle modern loads easily!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by vapodog:
[It's saving grace is pure nostalgia and it's nearly at the top of the list in that category.

It should have died out years ago with the 6.5 X 57 and similar rounds....but it's one fighter and ain't dieing off soon! But still, it's only advantage is nostalgia AND

Totally intelligent design.The problem as I see it, for what it is worth, is that the marketeers around 1954 started the gun nuts to shake their heads up and down like the little dogs in low rider cars to every short necked and later short fat cartridge that came along.

This diluted the possibility of sensible choice by presenting a plethora of nonsensable options Veiled as something new and state of the art The 7-08 falls in that catagory along with the .260 and many others of the short ultra mag configuration. Let the games begin. roger

Riodot, the article on the 7X57 was written by John Barsness and was in Reloader magazine. I have a friend who I am sure has it. I will see if I can get it scanned and email you a copy.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Totally intelligent design.The problem as I see it, for what it is worth, is that the marketeers around 1954 started the gun nuts to shake their heads up and down like the little dogs in low rider cars to every short necked and later short fat cartridge that came along.

This diluted the possibility of sensible choice by presenting a plethora of nonsensable options Veiled as something new and state of the art The 7-08 falls in that catagory along with the .260 and many others of the short ultra mag configuration. Let the games begin. roger

Roger.....LOL...funny...this really dserves a separate thread but if you really wish the fault lies with the US Army when they established the 308 as the military round.....and that established the short actions....Had the US army chosen a cartridge of the 57 mm length it would be a whole different ball game.....

We have the 25-06, 270 win, 280 Rem, 30-06, 35 Whelen all because of the military selecting a round eventaully to become the 30-06

The 308 spawned a whole different family and left several superb rounds to fall away.....the entire "X 57" line

None of us have to like it....but it is what it is!!

IdaRed,...nice. A wildcat.308x60s in a rifle like that.. yes please!

as a gunwriter stated,7x57 with a pointy 140gn is about the sexiest thing around, and the closest thing to a 10 that you can hold without d wife getting jelous.

The only bad thing about the .280 is that it will never be a 7x57, no charisma. Once again, I shot a 140 in. buck this fall with my 7x57, as well as a 55.5 in. kudu I'm looking at in my living room, the 7x57 just works over and over and just won't die,.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bartsche:
Roger.....LOL...funny...this really dserves a separate thread but if you really wish the fault lies with the US Army when they established the 308 as the military round.....and that established the short actions....Had the US army chosen a cartridge of the 57 mm length it would be a whole different ball game.....

Absooolutely Right after they spent millions of dollars doing a bad job of copying the 300 Savage. We are singing from the same Hymnal, VD. What's this banana for? roger

quote:

Originally posted by Don Slater:

quote:

Originally posted by Riodot:

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:

Thanks Don

So what I'm hearing is that if I have one of these actions, which I do, I should not have any worries loading up to max loads.

Thanks

Lance

Short answer.....Yes it will handle modern loads easily!

Sure, it was a long way around for a short quick answer but...........what fun would just a quick answer be.....

I learn a hell of a lot more from differing opinions , jokes , smart-ass remarks , & thread Hijacking , and history lessons .

That is why I enjoy AR!!!!!!!!

Thanks Guys.

Lance