I saw an article in one of the gun mags about firelapping to improve accuracy.
I thought the topic had been covered a while back on this forum but I couldn't find it with the "search" function, so I'm posting an inquiry.

I have a 7x57 that I'm having a little problem getting just like I want it, and thought maybe firelapping might be worth a try.

There's an outfit called Nostalgia Enterprises (Neco) that sells a full range of components for firelapping ( www.neconos.com ) Buying treated bullets and handloading them doesn't seem too expensive.

Neco claims there's no danger to the throat or bore if their instructions are followed.

The author of the article reported a 39% accuracy improvement in the rifle he tested. Neco says on average about a 15% improvement can be expected.

If anyone has had experience with firelapping in general or Neco in particular, I'd appreciate your observations.

[This message has been edited by Nitro Express (edited 07-08-2001).]

I've firelapped about 4 or 5 barrels using the LBT method, which is pure lead bullets and one grit of abrasive. I believe it is 280 grit. Never have tried the Neco method but should the need ever arise I would certainly consider it.

Firstly, I wouldn't even consider lapping on anything but a factory barrel. Custom barrels are hand lapped which should be better than fire lapping. I know at least one person will disagree as he has in the past, and his experience is with the Neco method using the 1200 grit for polishing a custom barrel with considerable success. Never having faced the problem I can't argue.

Factory barrels are rough. If there are obstructions, they may benefit from lapping. If there is welding or machining on the barrel, such as for a dovetail or a fore end screw, you can count of an internal change in bore dimension, and the barrel would probably benefit from lapping. The question is, "How much to lap?"

All the barrels I lapped were factory barrels. All improved in smoothness and accuracy. Lapping is nothing but accelerated wear of the bore. In my case I only still have one of those barrels I lapped, which still shoots exceptionally well. That barrel was smooth with only about 7 fire lapping rounds. The others required significantly more than that. The worst required 27 rounds, and while it improved the accuracy and cleaning, it also caused me to have to replace the barrel soon after due to accelerated wear and throat erosion. The others were just bad factory barrels which were going to be replaced anyway, and lapping was just a last resort. In all cases cleaning and accuracy did improve.

Ditto what Bob said!

All the top flight barrels (Krieger, Shilen, Hart, Lilja, Pac-Nor) do not typically need lapping. Douglas barrels are not handlapped and some would benefit. ER SHAW, Midway, etc usually need lapping.

I have used the LBT method as practiced by BearTooth Bullets (320 grit) and the NECO process. I prefer the NECO process for all but the roughest barrels.

Use 600 fps long-bearing bullets for NECO grits and you can't go wrong.

David Tubbs has a diamond lapping product out, I think.

I usually don't get a great accuracy improvement, but it makes them foul less and clean more easily.

Don

[This message has been edited by Don G (edited 07-08-2001).]

Nitro,

Have a look at our FAQs section, we have done an experiment on fire lapping, and the results are there.

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saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

Nitro,
I used the Neco system to firelap the barrel in my Ruger 77/22VHZ. The accuracy improvement was negligible, but the barel is easier to clean now.
Regards, George.

Basically what your doing is wearing out a barrel...you can accomplish the same thing by shooting say 100 3-shot groups or practicing your offhand shooting with a couple of hundred rounds of handloads....

wear is wear no matter how you cut it.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

I have been reading and dijesting a GREAT meny articals and opinions on barrel lapping and barrel break in, that I've read from all types of reliable source. Combining this with my own personal experience the conclusion I've come to is basicaly lapping and break in of a FACTORY barrel will overwelmingly acomplish only two things;
One it will make your barrel clean quicker and with less effort a LITTLE sooner and
Two you are wearing out your barrel sooner.
I have done or witnessed the barrel break in done on five brand new rifles and not on five brand new rifles and the only difference I found after CAREFULLY monertering them all was the broak in rifles cleaned easior but did not shoot one bit more accuately. The rifles were Remingtons, Savages, Rugers, and T/C Encores.
I know there are people here who have more experience than I and are more knowledgeable than myself and have had experiences contrary to mine, but I can only speek of what I have experienced first hand.
The single largest CONSISTANT accuricy improvement I have ever seen done to a rifle has been a good trigger job, overwelmingly so.
I might be 100% wrong, but I have come to the conclusion that barrel break in and fire lapping is for the most part, (especially barrel break in) at present a popular fad started by those in the industry to excellerate barrel wear in order to sell more barrels/rifles. Like Mr. Atkinson said wear is wear.

I have firelapped a couple of rifles with the Neco method. Accuracy improvements were there, but not dramatic at all. Throat did erode significantly on the Savage in 7mag (but they all seem to in the first 200 rounds). Much, much, MUCH easier to clean afterwards. I disagree with Atkinson to a small extent: not all barrels can be "lapped" sufficiently by shooting. True in many barrels, but not in the "corncob" barrel I had. It would foul (as in drop accuracy) in about 10 rounds -- not much of a shooter.

Something else to ponder is the fact that hard lead bullets are more abrasive than jacketed bullets, and lap barrels without being impregnated with more abrasives. Beartooth bullets makes lead bullets for rifle calibers, and they are great fun to shoot for practice, and cheap. Let's see: cheap, fun ammo that laps your barrel, hmm...... JMO, Dutch.

Ray....I got to disagree with you on this one. If you have a rough barrel you will spend more time cleaning it than you want. My original Rem 700 .350 Mag with the factory barrel was a good example. It was a good, if not great shooter, but the accuracy drop-off after 9 or 10 shots was noticable and it plated copper even with Noslers. What it would do with Barnes-X was unbelievable. After a day at the range fire-lapping it with the NECO process it was a different rifle with respect to maintaining it's accuracy and ease of cleaning. Now it didn't take 10 or 15 minutes to clean it and I wasn't keeping Sweet's in business. Wouldn't even think of using it on a custom barrel.

Question - Are there times when firelapping is the only answer? - absolutely. Is it something that you should begin with on a new gun? - absolutely NOT.

No matter if you have a premium or factory barrel, it is a good idea to shoot a minimum of 100 rounds to determine if the barrel will come around. I have had a few factory barrels that shot miserably out of the box that began to shoot after a few rounds, some load development work, and some simple action bedding.

To just arbitrarily begin firelapping a new gun is not wise. Firelapping is abrasive to the barrel - Period. By firelapping you do increase the barrel wear which will decrease the life of the barrel. HOWEVER, if you have a gun that cannot shoot straight and firelapping is the last resort - DO IT. Remember - firelapping should be the end, not the beginning of a poor shooter.

Look at it this way - Say you have a bad paint job on a car - first you tackle the problem with wax, then a strong cleaner, then a mild polishing compound, then a mild rubbing compound, then a wet sanding, and then after all this, it still looks bad, you break out the sand-blaster. Well, consider firelapping as the sandblaster for gun barrels. It is a last resort; but it generally works wonders.

Hello

I've firelapped three guns. It helped a 513T get from 5/8" groups at 50 yards to 1/2" groups. I think it helped a rebored Savage 24V a little, not sure as this is no bench rest gun for sure. Also used the other half-bag of .22 RF rounds from Neco on a Marlin 60, which will shoot 1/2" groups at 50 yards with one ( and only one ) brand of ammunition.

Tom

DB,
You may be right on that...If I have a rough barrel it goes in the junk pile and don't try to make it shoot...

Since I have been using thoes Lothar Walther barrels, all that other stuff has become a moot question, thier honing process is absolutly outstanding...

Every single barrel I have purchased has shot 1/2" for 5 shots, and they don't foul at all...Jim Brockman has had the same results and so has J. Belk I believe....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray - count me in the L-W club. I have four.

Ray....you're 100% right about the various premium barrels. If you have a good 'smith put on the barrel the maker (or the 'smith) will stand behind it. That's why I always allow the 'smith to pick the brand of barrel he likes.