On a scandinavian forum a guy from Schultz and Larsen (reputed barrelmakers of cut-rifled CrMo barrels) stated that he has done a lot of testing of barrellife comparing SS with CrMo ( much of the testing was done by competition shooters).
He stated that SS Shilen select match grade barrels will wear out in around 1500 shots with the 6mm Norma BR. Other SS barrels of other makes lasted also in the 1500 - 2000 round category.. Only exception was Border SS barrels - they lasted up to 3500 rounds.
And then we have Scultz and Larsen CrMo barrels as comparison. They lasted up to 8000 rounds.

He claimed that SS barrels was FAR inferior to CrMo barrels( at least S&L) regarding barrel life - around half as many shots could be expected from a very good quality SS barrel compared to a CrMo S&L.
Throaterosion was not a problem with CrMo barrels. He claimed that most barrels would wear out in the muzzle end the lands beeing worn because of increased friction caused by high bullet speed. SS is softer and wear out faster he said
He claimed that when " a false statement is told often enough by different famous authors it will automatically turn into a truth"..meaning that SS barrels was highly overrated..

He admitted that is was easier to make an accurate barrel of SS because it is much softer than CrMo. That was his explanation why many BR shooters use SS barrels. Regarding barrel life SS was a big disadvantage..


WHAT should one believe ? I thought that it was a proven fact that SS barrels could take much more rounds through them than CrMo barrels before wearing out....??!!!

I'm sure that there are a great number of really great shooting CM barrels out there. I'm also sure that some will last longer than SS bbls.CM vs SS barrel life is very hard to determine unless the test barrels are fired with the same loads and, at the same frequency so barrel heating is the same. I know of a Schneider SS 308 barrel that had over 14,000 rds through it and it still shot MOA at 300 meters. Was this a fluke? Who knows.
I'm also sure that many manufacturers will tout their product as "model perfect" when in fact they are quite ordinary. Having been a BR shooter for nearly 20 years I can say that I have never seen anyone competing in a match with a CM barrel.

Why is it that no army in the world uses SS?

quote:

Why is it that no army in the world uses SS?

Perhaps because it is easier for non color blind humans to see a stainless action and barrel than a blued or parkerized barrel.Or perhaps because stainless is more expensive to buy.Why do the vast majority of benchrest shooters use stainless barrels?

I've had several benchrest shooter tell me that stainless is softer, and barrel life is shorter than with Chrome-moly.

Chuck

I wish SOMEBODY would "come clean" on the rifle barrel.Everyone seems to be holding back information on methods and steels. I've read that while Sako "hammer" forges its barrel that they also use some Lothar Walter button rifled barrels on "selected" models. Can you hammer forge stainless steel? How much longer barrel life will a hammer forged barrel give than a button? I've read that the hammer work hardens the steel and they last MUCH longer than a button rifle barrel. Everyone has their product they are trying to push and they do it while hiding as much information as they can. I much prefer the SS barrels due to not having to worry about rust/blue wear. Here in Kentucky USA its so humid if you shoot a CM barrel and don't rush home to clean it with solvents that night the bore will start to rust.The only way to really test this is to get a SS and CM barrel from the same maker and shoot the same loads during the same time span and see. Ok Saeed your nominated to conduct the test! haha FNMauser

What a can of worms. I won't be able to remember
most of the points so will have to ramble on.
The Shiltz & Larson people reckon they have a taper in the bore near the muzzel, to increase
accuracy or longivity or something. That sounds like rubbish to me.
I thought "we" all agreed the barrel wears out
at the chamber end first.

I also can't believe that SS wears out that quickly, unless it was some of that "bad" batch
that seems to keep cropping up now and then.

It's probably hard to get a target barrel in Chrome but doesn't prove SS is "better".

I can imagine a case where if a new metal came
out, it looked horrible yellow say, claims it
lasted longer, shot better,etc, AND some top shooters started winning matches with it, well
guess what would start appearing along the shooting line? People would even start saying
it looked good to them.

As for the humid area arguement, most shooters
I know will not leave the range with out cleaning their Stainless barrel. Nothing to do with rust though.
SS must be a boon to some shooters, some have
more Varmint/target/rifles to clean than the total I've ever owned. and some have rust problems.
Most don't NEED it, mine looks shocking, if
a chrome arrived from a gunsmith finished like
my ss you'd send it back. Finished rough in pretense of a mat effect, scratches let go because grey on grey, no matter.
Lets face it, $5000 for a well worn English
Rigby in blue,wood,oil finish. Same in brand USA
S.S. fluted/thumbhole/laminate, both in 416 something, Damn, think I'll go with the chrome
and take my chance on accuracy.
John L.

Well from some past experiences of mine I can say some stainless is really soft, actually surprisingly so. It may be harder to/or more expensive to get it to match chromo for hardness and wear characteristics. As to how Stainless stands up to the heat wear and tear at the throat I guess they are bound to be a bit different.
Not being an expert my guess is its prolly quite possible to get very nearly the same characteristics in both but the stainless would then be alot more expensive.

This may not have anything to do with barrels, but I prefer a good carbon steel knife blade to stainless.

The carban steel blades seem to be a whole lot easier to sharpen, and they seem to hold an edge better as long as they are kept clean so as not to bring corrosian in as a factor.

Perhaps these same charachteristics would tranlate into rifle barrels.

I have been told by Harry McGowen that CroMo has a higher tensile strength and there for higher bursting strength, so there is another plus over stainless, safety, and possibly weight savings.

quote:

I've had several benchrest shooter tell me that stainless is softer, and barrel life is shorter than with Chrome-moly.

Other benchrest shooters claim that stainless barrels offer greater resistance to throat erosion.Since barrels do not wear out but instead suffer throat erosion due to pressure and heat,hardness may not be as important as people think.Did you ever try to cut stainless steel with a cutting torch?

Yes, a pretty good indicator that all stainless is not created equal.

I personally would lose zero sleep over the matter, and if you're shooting out a barrel, good on ya. $600 will have you in business again.

As an aside, it makes logical sense that stainless barrels would resist throat erosion pretty well. I'm in the process of building a stainless colapsable stove for wall tent use. Why, cause the fires of hell probably couldn't burn it out.

Chuck

i have worked with ss and hastoly and orther metals and there are as many differint grades of ss as there is allum. what do the barrel makers use? high grade stainless is way harder than crhomeoly thanks mike ps what about crhomelined

If quite a few years of BR shooting I have never seen a chrom moly barrel on a BR gun. This must prove something, i know not of the wear factor, but SS is the material of choice for the BR crew. What the vast majority of makers are using now is 416R stainless, and it seems to stand up well for me. What I don't understand is why someone would take a good barrel SS or CM and flute it. What is gained by it?
Bob

The highpower crowd has moved largely to stainless too. Since half of our usual match is sustained fire (four strings of 10 shots in 60 or 70 seconds each string), we've learned a bit about burning out barrels. The CrMo seem to crap out a little sooner in our applications. Accuracy is comparable in either flavor. I haven't rebarreled with a CrMo barrel in 15 years.

Redial

quote:

Originally posted by b beyer:
If quite a few years of BR shooting I have never seen a chrom moly barrel on a BR gun. This must prove something,
-------------
Well it may prove people are a bit like sheep.
Most SS bores are much easier to clean, i think, a big plus for much shooting.
When the top barrel makers go to a particular steel as a preference to themselves, a few stories about better accuracy etc would make
buying chrome abit of a problem.
--------------

What I don't understand is why someone would take a good barrel SS or CM and flute it. What is gained by it?
Bob

------------------
Very little to bugger all, except to make a
s.s barrel look even worse. Soon they may have
cross hatching like i've seen on certain rifle
bolts. As in if your bolt looks this bad it must be a Lazzeroni.
Jees. JL.

There is a a great overview of barrels, steels, rifling, fouling, # of grooves etc etc on 6mmBR.com.

From that discussion it is not impossible that some of the claims of S&L may have some truth to them - at least as far as barrel life is concerned. S&L makes cut rifled barrels in C&M, both factors which may give a somewhat longer barrel life - albeit with possible other disadvantages.

As far as CM vs SS useage in BR sport, I doubt that is very conclusive about barrel life. BR shooters are probably the people most willing to change their barrels after a relatively low number of rounds down the tube. They have quite different expectations to "accuracy" than most others do.

For a discussion of CM vs. SS in BR, see also this discussion on benchrest.com. It is hardly conclusive, but may give an idea of what the BR shooters think.

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by b beyer:
If quite a few years of BR shooting I have never seen a chrom moly barrel on a BR gun. This must prove something, i know not of the wear factor, but SS is the material of choice for the BR crew. What the vast majority of makers are using now is 416R stainless, and it seems to stand up well for me. What I don't understand is why someone would take a good barrel SS or CM and flute it. What is gained by it?
Bob

Absolutetly nothing as weight would not be a factor.

Fluting removes weight in a large diameter barrel that would then be stiffer than a smaller diameter barrel of the same weight.

Fluting does not make a barrel stiffer, it actually lessens the stiffness somewhat. However, the loss in stiffness is less propotionately than the weight reduction.

They have fluted revolver cylinders for many many years for somewhat similar reasons.

Futing does have some merit when weght reduction with the stiffest possible barrel is the goal. I guess heat disipation would be slightly enhanced, but not enough to fret over.

quote:

I'm also sure that many manufacturers will tout their product as "model perfect" when in fact they are quite ordinary.

WOW....you just dated yourself on that one!!!

On the issue of SS vs CR MO if there was a clear difference it would be very well known.....and I suspect this is sufficient to say that there's more to it than a simple comparison of SS Vs Cr Mo....or there's not sufficient difference to prove an edge.

I wonder if SS being softer than CrMo is the idea behind those SS Tornado bore brushes?

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:
I wonder if SS being softer than CrMo is the idea behind those SS Tornado bore brushes?

Bad idea, any stainless bore brush whether bristle or "Tornado. Throw them away or save for plumbing chores, not gun barrels.