I am refinishing a stock using Miles Gilbert supplies - done with 1st sanding and going to stain with the Walnut Tone Gun Stock Stain. The bottle does not say how much water to mix it with - what is the right mix?

Depends on how dark you want it. I usually start light and increase until I get what I like

I use a wood Dye and mix it with alcohol

Water...?!

No, beats me, I thought the video was crazy when they said it. Problem is that they say "read the instructions on the bottle", and there are no instructions on the bottle.

?? better solution ?? Birchwood Casey?

I posted a question about staining stocks a while ago. I tried searching but can't find it. Anyway, there were some really good comments and recommendations, mostly advising me to stay away from stains.

I have been using Teak Oil as result of one of the recommendations. I'm very pleased with how it enhances the wood grain and color variances. It seems to hold up well and is easily repairable, where a stain would be harder to repair. I have used tru-oil and many other commercial stock finishes, but right now I'm sticking with Teak oil.

You may want to try searching for that thread, if I find it, I'll put up a link.

link

FWIW, I took this guy's advise, he seemed to know what he's talking about. I am really happy with the teak oil on Black Walnut and English walnut, I heat it up to where I can barely handle it and apply on a warm stock.

quote:

Posted 06 August 2010 00:44 Hide Post
All very good advice above. I would only suggest once more, as done above, that the cut offs have various finish applied first before you decide.

Reason is: Real dense wood really does not take oil real fast. It helps to thin it a good amount...even heat the oil and or wood up a little for a deeper penetration. Keep applying this mixture until the stock takes no more. Often this approach will yield great results. If you want the wood darker and the contrast as high as possible, and it clearly sounds like you do, then go straight to oil and avoid sealers first.

You can stain the wood after the oil.
Oil stain or non-reagent grade acid with a piece of iron in it will provide a great stain.
Rub some of the mixture into the finished and oiled stock and heat it. Dark red-brown colors will deepen. Stop heating when the color is reached that you like; wipe it with oil or vinegar with vigor. I prefer vinegar; it stops the acid right now.
Grey or chocolate lines will have turned ink black by now and the color of the wood will simply glow. This finish will look as lose to a true patina as any I have ever played with.

If the wood has more exposed end grain it will suck up finish faster or if the blank used is a softer fiber, these ad a few other qualities will cause wood to darken much faster. In a situation like that, it might be a good idea to use sealer first and block the oil from getting in deep and darkening the wood, too dark.
There are great many variations to blanks, regardless of species. California-English is generally very consistent in grain density and fiber length. The above teak and /or teak acid stain finish will do very well on your stock.

The biggest problem with stains is they have a tendency to block out the various shades of background color of the wood, and that to me is a shame and borders on a sin. I would rather heat the thinned oil up and let it penetrate deep and darken the wood this way than take the shortcut and stain. Heating the wood up also helps get the oil in deep.

For what it is worth, I finished about 23 blocks of Turkish/English with 23 different finishes and some variations. I left the blocks out doors for three years. I also planed them down to see how deep various finishes go. I was surprised at some of the results.

Thin teak oil is the only oil to use. UV light and various others weather conditions break down other oils faster. Teak repels water better than any other oil and does not appear to darken with age. Great oil.
I have found reference from old English stockmaking where the English used rusted iron drums for the storage of oil. The colored oil was a byproduct of the rusted iron. After the true Circassian (naturally red) was used the English apparently went to staining to get the rusted iron color. It is my belief that the continental makers of Virginia, Pennsylvania, Conn, Kentucky, Tenn…et all, etc, that built stocks of maple learned the above staining technique from the English accident of rusty drums.

Hope this is of some help.

Adam



http://www.luxuswalnut.com

Ok, thanks.

As I said I use a dye not a stain. A dye has no pigment so it doens't block the pores.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11448&rrt=1

I normally use it to blend an off color area. Mixing it light and repeating. You can do it dark and then use the same solvent to lighten if you want. A straight dark walnut is almost black and cna be use to dye epoxy. Or mixed lighter to get you epoxy to match your wood.

Laurel Mtn Stain is good stuff

quote:

non-reagent grade acid with a piece of iron in it will provide a great stain.

Think Ill try that.

Anyone know what kind of acid, non-reagent acid would be?



.

A reactant or reagent is a substance consumed during a chemical reaction. Solvents and catalysts, although they are involved in the reaction, are usually not referred to as reactants.

n another use of the term, when purchasing or preparing chemicals, "reagent-grade" describes chemical substances of sufficient purity for use in chemical analysis, chemical reactions or physical testing. Purity standards for reagents are set by organizations such as ASTM International. For instance, reagent-quality water must have very low levels of impurities like sodium and chloride ions, silica, and bacteria, as well as a very high electrical resistivity.



Stain is simply a mixture of coloring matter in a liquid. There is a limit to the amount of coloring matter each liquid will dissolve per gallon. When that limit is reached the stain solution becomes cloudy, or may precipitate coloring matter which settles to the bottom of the pot, or it may do both. So when a clear, color-saturated stain does not produce a color on wood which is dark enough in one or two applications, allowing each to dry, don't overload the liquid with more coloring matter. It is better to find some other stain to do the job alone or as a first coat over which the other stain is used. Often two or more stains mixed together will give the color wanted. If it is convenient to use a stain quite hot it is satisfactory to make a supersaturated solution without having a cloudy stain or one from which the coloring matter crystalizes and precipitates to the bottom of the pot.

¶ Heat increases the solubility of colors of the coal tar class, but if you use hot water, benzine, turpentine, alcohol, mineral spirits, etc. for the liquid in order to dissolve more coloring matter and secure a darker color and greater penetration of the stain into the wood, the stain should be kept hot while being brushed on to the wood. If the stain becomes chilled the aniline coloring matter will precipitate gradually as the stain gets colder. The first hot stain applied will be darker than the later applications of colder mixture.

¶ In cold weather if aniline or other coal tar water stain gets chilled the coloring matter will slowly crystallize and settle to the bottom of the pot and the stain, will then be lighter in color. It should be heated to re-dissolve the color. Alcohol spirit stains are affected by cold to a much less degree than water stains. Oil stains are not so affected. Nigrosine black is more completely soluble than some others like the orange and other light colors.

¶ When water soluble aniline and other coal tar colors are dissolved in hot water and, upon cooling to 70 degrees, precipitate color which settles to the bottom of the pot a super-saturated solution has been made. More coloring matter has been dissolved by the heat than the water can carry at a lower temperature. The remedy is to add more hot water.

¶ In manufacturing processes where large quantities of small articles like toys are stained by dipping them, into a super-saturated solution of stain the stain is kept hot to the boiling point by a steam jet or coil in the tanks.

¶ Coal tar colors are usually sold in dry powder form, although factory-prepared stains include these dissolved in water, spirit and oil and sold by the gallon. The dry stain colors are concentrated as to coloring matter and their great strength makes it necessary to use only a very little with each gallon of water to make a strong stain. An ounce or two to the gallon is often enough, depending upon what particular color you are mixing and how dark a stain is wanted. The dry stain is sold by the ounce and pound.

¶ Where hot water is not available on the job it is better to buy the stain in liquid form of standard colors. The dry form costs less per gallon, however, and permits the mixing and blending of colors to suit the needs in matching.

¶ The dry stain powders are often composed of fine and coarse particles. The finer particles settle to the bottom when the packages are subject to vibration or jarring. Care should be taken to see that the dry powder in a package is well mixed before using. The stain will not work right otherwise. It is also important to keep dry stain powders in a dry place and sealed up tightly in the cans. They will absorb moisture from a damp atmosphere. Deterioration will result.

For dye stain materials I always chose Mohawk products others which are as good can be found where ever quality wood workers finishing supplies are sold .

http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_browse.asp

http://shellac.net/behlen-wood-finishing.html

http://www.cheyennesales.com/catalog/behindex.htm

Some of you may find Walnut crystals of interest read the below link known as VanDyke Crystals .

http://shellac.net/PLBEaniline.html


H Behlen Aniline DYE Stain (Dry Powdered) --
Water / Alcohol Soluble dyes help to bring out the beauty of the wood grain
and will not leave a muddy appearing surface.
Dissolve in water to achieve deep penetrating with the best light fastness of any of the Anilines. Add warm water to powder to get the desired color intensity.
Dyes may need the addition of 25% Wood Alcohol to achieve color.

When dissolved in Alcohol, the stain is used primarily as a touch-up and repair stain (due to it’s relatively poor light fastness). Rapid drying and will not raise grain of the wood. When used by itself as a stain, it should be dissolved with Wood Alcohol. As a tinting medium, dyes should be dissolved in Behkol Solvent. Some dyes may need 25% water added to achieve color.

I personally prefer solvent or alcohol as a solution medium over water-based applications . Everyone has preferences and I'm comfortable with solvent borne processes ,although flooring finishes are solid water based performers ;an Bona Kemi IMO is one of the very best !!!.

Check out finishes all can be made high gloss semi gloss satin matt flat an there stains

• 2 hour dry time

• No bleed back

• Penetrates, stains, and seals bare wood

• 800 - 1,000 sf/gal coverage rate

• All stain colors can be blended, offering an endless color palette

• Cleans up with mineral spirits

• Low odor

• Easy touch-ups (mineral spirits for thinning dark or heavy spots)


http://www.bona.com/en-gb/Unit...inishes/BonaTraffic/

You cant add Mohawk ultra penatrating stain to finish such as Dalys. It just clumps up and settles to he bottom, non compatable

Might also pay to read the labels on analine dyes..ain't too good for you..wear gloves, at least. Another reason that I stick to alkenet root

quote:

Originally posted by JD Miller:
You cant add Mohawk ultra penatrating stain to finish such as Dalys. It just clumps up and settles to he bottom, non compatable

JD ; http://www.mohawk-finishing.co...rowse.asp?ictNbr=180

http://www.mohawk-finishing.co...rowse.asp?ictNbr=178

Their water an alcohol soluble JD ? As is Ultra Stain why won't they dissolve in Dalys ?
I believe the Key to successful mixing is dissolve colorant in Lacquer thinner or alcohol ( I use acetone because I have large quantity of it ) then either place in mineral spirits or directly into the oil stain , shouldn't be an issue . FYI ; Nearly any oil stain won't accept pigment or dye stains liquid or powdered , if not first dissolved thoroughly before introduction .Oil surround pigments thus not allowing proper dispersion .


Dalys From Specs
Comes in Daly’s standard colors that can me intermixed for additional colors. If tinting is
required, up to 6 ounces per gallon of universal machine colorants may be added or use
colorants ground in oil. To lighten, use Daly’s Wood Stain Clear Base. Always test first
for compatibility and desired effect.

I really like the stain on the stocks from Lon Paul custom rifles-very traditional and classy look to them.

what is product name of a non-reagent acid? Muratic? I've also read of iron in vinegar.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
Might also pay to read the labels on analine dyes..ain't too good for you..wear gloves, at least. Another reason that I stick to alkenet root

That and it just plain looks right! Root into walnut just looks correct.