Hi Fellas
Is it possible to have a 405 WCF work in a P-14?
The 303 British cartridge rim is .540,the 405WCF is .543,the 405WCF is probably too long to fit??

If possible to fit the 405WCF,could you crank it up to a bit more than what it is loaded for,like a 300gr bullet is about 2200-2300fps,could you get it to say 2500fps,safely? maybe more????

What would be involved in making a P-14 up to take the 405WCF?
Or if you can think of another cartridge,what would you go for,keeping in mind it is a P-14???

Thanks for your replies and ideas

Piece of cake; bolt face works as is; you will have to grind the feed rails and ramp to feed the blunt rounds. You will need a longer mag box of course; the .303s are very short. I build .405s and other things, on Russian 91s, on an Oberndorf stock pattern I made. Nice, cheap, single shot rifles. You can load it up to the limit of the brass and primers like other modern rounds; ; ie, in the 50-60K psi level.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Piece of cake; bolt face works as is; you will have to grind the feed rails and ramp to feed the blunt rounds. You will need a longer mag box of course; the .303s are very short. I build .405s and other things, on Russian 91s, on an Oberndorf stock pattern I made. Nice, cheap, single shot rifles. You can load it up to the limit of the brass and primers like other modern rounds; ; ie, in the 50-60K psi level.

Hi dpcd
Thanks for replying,that is good to know what you told me,thanks thought I might be just dreaming
What magazine do you think I should use?,a M1917?or just get it extended?
Here in Australia it is hard to find a barrel maker with the .405 WCF chambering,but I will email a few here or ring,after the Easter holidays,looked into a few barrel makers over in the US,they want a $200-350 export license fee,then the barrel cost on top.
I suppose it is crazy to build one,but it would be like no other 405 WCF,thinking of getting a nice walnut stock or a laminated one for it.
Would you do the barrel contour in round or hexagonal??,probably round the contour of an old english rifle,hahaha,might be crazy?

What sight did you go for,scope or peep?

Thanks for your replies,hope I can test your knowledge again

Cheers

dale.

Not crazy at all. You will have to make a mag box with slanted ends so the rimmed rounds will stack right. 303 mag; use the ends and make new sides. I use Richards stocks for the P14s; have used both Lam and walnut. I usually put low powered scopes on the P14s and 17s I build; Leupold 1-4s are cheap and good. On my current 375 I have a Leupold 6x; I am not sure why. On the Russian 91 single shots I have irons only. Wow, I had no idea that exporting a barrel was so hard. Barrel contours are round. But you could certainly make it oct if you wanted; just more cost. Test my knowledge; funny; I am just a hack who has done a lot of crazy projects. How about a #1 Lee Enfield, one piece stock, in 45-70? I made the stock pattern.

Just curious, would a barrel blank, left long, with the ends welded in .... still be a barrel?
Cut off the ends and have at it. Dont know, just wondering.

Yes it is still a barrel if the customs people find it; I don't recommend doing it.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Yes it is still a barrel if the customs people find it; I don't recommend doing it.

Don't worry,I won't

Others have mentioned the need to lengthen the mazine box and slant the ends of the box IF you want it to work reliably as a repeater....

Well, yes and no. Depnds on how many rounds you want it to repeat. If you want it to functon as a 2-shot rifle (1 in chamber, 1 in magazine) all that work probably isn't needed, certainly not the slanted magazine ends part.

The P-14 action is easily long enough to be made to work, it is just the mag box that can be a problem depending on what you want other than a one or two shot rifle.

Anything you can build a .375 H&H on can surely be made to work. Lots of .375 H&Hs have been built on P-14s over the years.

I have a .405 Winchester built on a 1903 Springfield action and it is certainly no longer action than a P-14. Being "inherently frugal with my time" (fancy for "lazy") mine is a single shot. No big deal, just make a spacer with a bit of a "feed trough" in the top, to fill up the un-needed space in the magazine box. Wood is perfectly okay. The filler on mine is a block of "Marine-Tex Epoxy.

I have an ancient Weaver K-2.5X on mine. Don't Know how long it will last, but it has been on the rifle now for more than 25 years and is still perkin' right along like a good old-time cofee-pot.

Hi Alberta Canuck
You said that I don't need to modify the magazine box,if it is only two rounds?,I was hoping to have at least 3 rounds and one up the pipe,maybe even 4 rounds but 3 in the mag and one up the spout,is 4,should be enough
What is involved in making it feed and to have the capacity of three rounds or more?

Have read too,that a lot of 375 H&H have been made out of P-14,some nice one's too

Thanks for your input mate
Cheers

Dale

What is the barrel thread on a P-14

Do modern barrel makers still do the P-14 thread????

I like that movie. Thread for the P14 is 1.125 OD, ten square TPI. Anyone with a lathe can cut those threads. I think most barrel makers like Douglas will thread one for you.
The comment about the two shot rifle without altering the box is incorrect; the 303 box is a bit too short for that. I tried it and although the bolt will close on a round in the mag, it gets stuck in the mag box. (It willl work on a P17 rifle though; they have longer mag boxes but the ends are not slanted. My camera battery just died; anyway, it won't take much to lengthen the 303 box to make them feed right. Only .025 or so; if you straighten out the crimps in the box sides that will do it. Or file the rear and front mag box ramps some and a 405 round will fit and feed; after you alter the receiver feed rails. I have built many 375s on Pattern 14s, but you need to forget the 303 mag box when you do it. Fortunately they are easy to make. But in this case, don't have to.

Here is a 405 round stuck in a Winchester 303 mag box; you can see what needs to be done. PM sent to you with more details. Hint; don't use a Win mag box, use a Rem or Eddystone.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:

The comment about the two shot rifle without altering the box is incorrect; the 303 box is a bit too short for that. I tried it and although the bolt will close on a round in the mag, it gets stuck in the mag box. (It willl work on a P17 rifle though; they have longer mag boxes but the ends are not slanted. aighten out the crimps in the box sides that will do it. Or file the rear and front mag box ramps some and a 405 round will fit and feed; after you alter the receiver feed rails.

Please note, my comments related to lengthening the box and/or slanting the end pieces.

If you want a very simple fix to have a 1-round-down magazine, removing a bit of the top front of the mag will provide enough clearance IME, ....but then, I also thought everyone who wanted to do this would just use a P-17 mag assembly anyway. Used or surplus ones are certainly around to be had at no great expense.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:

The comment about the two shot rifle without altering the box is incorrect; the 303 box is a bit too short for that. I tried it and although the bolt will close on a round in the mag, it gets stuck in the mag box. (It willl work on a P17 rifle though; they have longer mag boxes but the ends are not slanted. aighten out the crimps in the box sides that will do it. Or file the rear and front mag box ramps some and a 405 round will fit and feed; after you alter the receiver feed rails.

Please note, my comments related to lengthening the box and/or slanting the end pieces.

If you want a very simple fix to have a 1-round-down magazine, removing a bit of the top front of the mag will provide enough clearance IME, ....but then, I also thought everyone who wanted to do this would just use a P-17 mag assembly anyway. Used or surplus ones are certainly around to be had at no great expense.

Hi Alberta Canuck
You reckon get a M1917 magazine and follower,will it work with the 405WCF??

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Here is a 405 round stuck in a Winchester 303 mag box; you can see what needs to be done. PM sent to you with more details. Hint; don't use a Win mag box, use a Rem or Eddystone.

Hmmm,she is stuck alright

Well it is certainly possible to make one out of an '03 Springfield. Have a look at this Sedgley on the Double GunSite:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/f...19764&gonew=1#UNREAD

Jerry Liles

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Liles:
Well it is certainly possible to make one out of an '03 Springfield. Have a look at this Sedgley on the Double GunSite:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/f...19764&gonew=1#UNREAD

Jerry Liles

Jerry
Thanks for that,it is a beautiful looking rifle,just love it,would like mine to look as nice as that.

Dale.

A 405 will fit into a P17 box, or a 1903 Springfield box, (which can be made to fit the Enfields) but you won't have the angled ends to make sure the rimmed ammo doesn't get it's rims in wrong. That might not be important if you are careful in loading it; make sure the rims are stacked right. As long as the recoil didn't dislodge them.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
A 405 will fit into a P17 box, or a 1903 Springfield box, (which can be made to fit the Enfields) but you won't have the angled ends to make sure the rimmed ammo doesn't get it's rims in wrong. That might not be important if you are careful in loading it; make sure the rims are stacked right. As long as the recoil didn't dislodge them.

dpcd
I'll stick to my magazine in the Eddystone and do the work like you said,file the slanted ends down

Dale

Hi All
looking a bit brighter today,on the barrel front,for the 405WCF,will still try the other barrel maker here in Oz,on Monday,but if I can't get one from him,I have the opportunity to get a Shilen from a bloke that imports them here,$320 all up,but might not be delivered this year,I suppose that don't really matter,I can get the other things done to the rifle then,like mill the ears,maybe install a cock on open kit,get it drilled and tapped for mounts and scope,you know,all the things we need to get it functional

Cheers

Dale.

Huh,have had the rifle for over three years and just decided to take it apart,like the scope and mounts and what do I find on the barrel knox,
Eddystone
Model of US M1917
Bloody hell,it is a model 1917,so looked at the mag The mag is a M1917 one,I put 5 rounds of 303 in it and then cycle the action(cannot go right into the chamber,as it is only 303/25),it picks them up and then ejects them,no worries.
Only thing that has me a bit annoyed,is the 303 rounds have to be inserted in the mag,well really the feed rails,up towards the chamber more(like it has been opened up for the 303)then push them down to the back of the mag,but they all cycle. I think the back of the feed rails near the back of the mag,will need opening up,for if you try to put cartridges(303) right to the back,they get stuck and won't go in,tried 30/06 rounds and they fit and they are long,but still had about 13-15mm room left in the mag.

So the mag feeds 303 ammo no worries.

Should I get the trigger guard straightened(take the belly out)

Where can I get a new bolt handle to be put on it?
Any other ideas for the dress up of the action???

Cheers

Yes, definitely straighten the guard; never build an Enfield with a belly guard. Bolt handles are everywhere; I sent a PM on that. Put a Timney trigger on it, although there is nothing wrong with the original double pull trigger. I assume the rear bridge has been contoured so it looks like a sporter. Other than that, polish and blue it, (after you fit the barrel). I like bead blasted receivers and polished barrels. Or bead blast the whole thing looks good too.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Yes, definitely straighten the guard; never build an Enfield with a belly guard. Bolt handles are everywhere; I sent a PM on that. Put a Timney trigger on it, although there is nothing wrong with the original double pull trigger. I assume the rear bridge has been contoured so it looks like a sporter. Other than that, polish and blue it, (after you fit the barrel). I like bead blasted receivers and polished barrels. Or bead blast the whole thing looks good too.

Got your PM mate,one sent back at ya.
How do you go about straightening the trigger guard? Or should I get a gunsmith to do it.?

The rear bridge is stock standard,ears still on it,hole in the middle(Where the sight sat I presume)To get it to look like a sporter,what would be involved and what contour should it be,I was thinking maybe like a Win Mod 70 or the FN?

I'm with you mate,I like bead blasted receivers too,the barrel probably would look good like that too or get it one of those Cerecote coating jobs

Cheers

Make it look like this; I stupidly removed the safety and then found out that I couldn't get a M70 bolt shroud for it. Oh well, I don't need a safety anyway. This is a 375 I did a few years ago; on a Richards Micro fit stock. You can see how to alter the bolt stop/spring. See
the rear base shim? That is what happens when you get the rear bridge too low. To alter the TG; you cut it off and re-weld the front piece back on; you can also forge it but that requires a fixture. Get an old gunsmithing book like Ackley wrote; back in the 60s people cut these things up bu the thousands.

Glad someone else has this idea too. dpcd I would be thankful for any info you could share on this conversion.

Which conversion do you mean? I have done a lot of conversions on P14s/17s. I am glad to help any way I can.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Which conversion do you mean? I have done a lot of conversions on P14s/17s. I am glad to help any way I can.

Sorry, I am interested in making a 405 Win on a P14 action, magazine modifications and any other tips you may have. I'll dig up the floor plate straightening.

Been awhile ,but have had health issues to sort out and income issues.
Well I have ordered the Pac-Nor Barrel,a 1.375 diameter on for the Enfield,now just to wait for it.
Will get a Boyds laminated stock,i think

Does anyone think it is worthwhile to put a Timney trigger in?
Can you get new bolt release knobs??
Can you get a different safety installed??

Thanks

I don't have a problem with double pull military triggers but use modern ones on Mausers and the selection for Enfields is better as well. You don't need a new bolt release knob; the existing one is perfect once you alter the spring and seat; I will post a pic of the way I do it. Why would anyone want a different safety? The original one is perfect. I had originally planned to put a M70 on the one in the pics above, but they stopped making them; now they are available again. So mine has no safety at all but I am done with this rifle. If you want a M70 safety, you can ask your stock maker to leave the cut for your mil one off, and you mill off the safety boss from your action. When you bend the spring, heat it a bit; not too hot ; just enough to get a 90 degree bend and it won't break.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I don't have a problem with double pull military triggers but use modern ones on Mausers and the selection for Enfields is better as well. You don't need a new bolt release knob; the existing one is perfect once you alter the spring and seat; I will post a pic of the way I do it. Why would anyone want a different safety? The original one is perfect. I had originally planned to put a M70 on the one in the pics above, but they stopped making them; now they are available again. So mine has no safety at all but I am done with this rifle. If you want a M70 safety, you can ask your stock maker to leave the cut for your mil one off, and you mill off the safety boss from your action. When you bend the spring, heat it a bit; not too hot ; just enough to get a 90 degree bend and it won't break.

Hey mate
Thanks for the advice,will use the original safety and alter the bolt stop,I'm starting to get the bits together,so it is exciting,well for me it is.


Cheers