M17 or Mauser......300 H&H and 375 H&H

Which would you prefer for two custom rifles, one in 300 H&H and of course the other in 375 H&H.

I have eliminated Pre 64, current Model 70 and CZ/BRNO. The Pre 64 because of the high kick off price. In Australia Pre 64s have American type prices but our custom work is much lower in price for the same job. The CZ/BRNO has an image problem for me. The current Model 70 lacks appeal with the splined and soldered on bolt handle and the actions seemed to be very poorly made in general.

PC, if you read this, yes it will be De Vries and Waghorn.

Mike

CZ

The other thing I meant to add on the M70s is that I think the other actions make for a better looking gun because of the receiver ring being wider than the rails.

Mike

I think I have owned every possible action at one time or another. I have decided that the only ones designed and built properly are Mausers and Mannlichers. Everything else is just an imitation.

I'd like to slightly expand this discussion: are P-14s suitable platforms for H&H cartridges? The two concerns: 1) does the bolt face designed for a 0.540 rim works safely and effectively, as is, with the 0.532 of the H&H; and 2) are the rails too wide open to begin with?

Thanks.

Mike,

I've done this same thing with a pair of Mauser actions - the first was a Colombian which my 'smith made into a shorty 375 with a 22" Lothar Walther barrel. It is my bush rifle of choice. I liked the stock design so much and was hankering to make an "almost" matched pair - in 300H&H.

The barrel is 26" and the action is a Brazilian 1908. The 300 is still in the white and unstocked but both rifles sport Gentry 3-pos safeties and Timney triggers. Scopes are Leupold VariX-II 3-9X40 and VXI 4-12X40 which are identical in size. Eventually the only way of telling the difference will be the stock wood and barrel length.

You will have to mill away the front and rear of the action and modify the mag box. This does weaken the action behind the bottom lug but in the many thousands of South African Mausers so modified I have yet to hear of one letting go.

Good luck with the project.

Pete

A P17 with a P14 bolt, or a P17 with the bolt face opened, make fine magnum cartridge rifles. They do require a lot of work though, and unless you can do it yourself, or get it done inexpensively, they will cost more then a Mauser to build. There are a great many more aftermarket products for Mausers, the P14/17 stuff is kind of thin on the ground. A 98 Mauser can certainly be made into either of these calibers, just don't start thinking you have a Weatherby in terms of loads. Do all your milling for length required from the rear of the receiver, that will avoid lessening the front lug abutment. There is bottom metal available already set up for this, but seeing as you're in OZ, and your dollar is worth even less then our Cdn one, I think it would be easier to get it done locally. I'm sure some of the Australian posters here can recommend someone for all or part of the work. FWIW - Dan

First

Buy 2 CZ's, one in 375 HH and one in 300 win.

Have the 300 win rechambered for 300 HH (will need to come back a thread or 2 due to 300win body taper)

this is the path of least resistence, and you'll have to IDENTICAL guns on safari, except caliber... endless spare parts and a SPARE STOCK.

Kitchen,
The m1917 and p-14 both handle large round great.
I have a 500 jeffe-ry on a m1917.

speaking of which, I spent the day getting the pad fitted, inletting, some shaping, and I am like 75% of the way to bedding it again

jeffe

Introduction to Modern Gunsmithing 1967
by MacFarland He
Out of Print--Limited Availability
Used & new from $7.50

The text and pictures from page 110 to 137 are on how to sporterize a P14 / M1917.
The last example shown is a 375 H&H magnum.
The M1917 is featured becase it the most difficult military rifle to convert.

CZs rechambered are not the answer as match grade barrels will be used. If CZs were used then only the actions would be involved.

Mike

I would go with a set of Mauser actions. I am going to do the same tyhing some day. I have two a VZ-24 action that I am going to use for this project.

Mike, a '14 or a '17 would suit your purposes nicely. If you're talking about a standard '98 Mauser action, I'd stay away from an H&H-length cartridge. I know many people have done it, but equally many people have argued that in order to open the '98 action up to take those long cartridges, you're weakening the receiver right at the point that supports the locking lugs.

The best military action for this job is probably the '14 because the bolt face and extractor work as they are with no need for modification. You can get an H&H magazine box from Gun Parts Corp for about 10 to 15 bucks for this action.

In spite of my name, I'm not a fanatic, however. Personally, I'd take the actions you rejected over an action that was built during the time Woodrow Wilson was president. But for the choice you gave, I think the Enfield is the best option.

Why not Montana Rifleman actions ??? Would it be tough to get them to Austrialia ?

Mike,

I like your style

You have me thinking now I could easily get a .300 win cz and have it chambered to .300 H&H. Personally I would be happy with the cz's nothing but warm fuzzy feelings with cz's persoanlly . But you have to get what makes you happy so I suppose it is a pair of M98 actions buttt they must be identical M98's or you might as well get a pair of cz's. I have never seen the enfields much here in Vic, then again I am an ignorate and I have not looked that hard.

Just for my own imfo Mike can .300 H&H brass be made from .375 H&H brass ??

Forming 300 H&H brass from .375 would be a chore. You can just buy Winchester brass at about 20 bucks/50.

sdgunslinger

Im have been playing with this for about a year now and basically decided on Mauser or Enfield. H&H have used both and this is about as close as I will get. As to the Montanna I have thing about cast actions and this type of rifle. I know the cast is fine but I see it a bit like a plastic follower if you know what I mean. Getting the actions out here would be OK, a hassle but OK.

I don't know a real lot about M98 and Enfield except that the good gunsmiths out here are very equipped for then as well as the H&Hs and 404. I am trying to get a bit more info on each action for when I ring the gunsmith.

Mike

[ 05-29-2003, 04:27: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

PC,

As was mentioned you just buy 300 H&H brass although it is not common like 375 brass.

I seem to have got some good improvement in my neck and the 375 is fine although probably not for using one with full loads as an all the time thing.

The M17 is a bigger action than the M98 and you make 505 etc. on them but they are more work and hence more cost.

If you see a 300 H&H round you will just love it.

Mike

The Enfields and Rem M-30 clone make up into some of the finest bolt guns in the world and they will take a 505 Gibbs in stride...Holland & Holland, Westley Richards etc. have made many a custom gun on those wonderfull old actions..They are as good as a Mauser and when finished thats what they are....I think they probably beat a Mauser in the longer cartridges 300 H&H and up, and I am a dyed in the wool Mauser fan...

It may be a chore but down our way 300H&H brass is hard to come by, so we use 375H&H.

Run the 375 case into a 300H&H trim die.

The case lengthens a bit so you file off the 1mm extra that protrudes.

Run the case into a 300H&H FL Die to expand the neck.

You do get some neck thickening in the lower half of the neck. After the first firing, you might want to ream it out. Otherwise the cases will fail at this point, from work hardening.

Of course you sit with a headstamp problem too

Pete

Pete

I bought some Hornady 300 H&H dies and new 375s come straight down with just the slightest creases on the shoulder. However, fired 375 cases crack on the shoulder when necked down.

I would have thought 300 H&H cases were fairly available in Africa. Winchester Australia brings 300 H&Hs in each year and I would think most gun shops that carry 375s would also have 300 H&Hs.

Mike

Mike,

PMP make 300 H&H brass but the stuff is rarer than rocking horse shit. Dear too.

All my hunting mates shoot 375 and they don't reload, so they give me their brass.

Besides this kind of chore keeps me out of mischief.

Pete