I don't mean to me a smart ass but all you guys who wouldn't own a Sako now because of those barrels and if you own a Rem please don't shoot them there was a recall on the 17rem about 20 yrs for barrels. I send mine in and they rebarreled it. Sako not the only one over the years that have had barrel problems. To be truthful I never did know how many or who got hurt with those 17cal barrels but with our laws I'm sure they were taken care the same as anyone hurt from Sako/Tikka barrels will be taken care of. I'm sure Sako has been talking to their lawyers the same as the people who got hurt. Yes I would buy a Sako the same as I will continue to buy Rem rifles .

The Sako 75 with its move to the "fall off" recoil lug and the shift away from the 3 different diameter actions all spells cheapness.



Are the blown Sakos a reflection of this cheapness.



Mike

The recoil lug is held in by a set screw on the model 75. They also are available in 5 different sizes of actions. Are you sure you know what you talking about here?
There is no doubt that there was a serious issue with some bad Finnlites, but I wonder how many other rifles have had similar problems before the internet was available to propagate both good and bad information about them........DJ

It sure don't look good for Sako.......but the jury is still out in my eyes.....It's no longer ecceptable for them to "own up" to the issues.....they must now explain why they didn't do so immediately.

NO!

The recoil lug is held in by a set screw on the model 75. They also are available in 5 different sizes of actions. Are you sure you know what you talking about here?
There is no doubt that there was a serious issue with some bad Finnlites, but I wonder how many other rifles have had similar problems before the internet was available to propagate both good and bad information about them

I was under the impression that Sako 75s no longer had the different scale of actions as was the case for the 222, 243 and 270 actions. Only differences is length?

The recoil lug is held in by a set screw on the model 75.

That is damning with very faint praise

Mike

.

That picture will show up in my mind every time I shoot. I wouldn't even consider a Tikka let alone a Sako.

No thanks...

Danny Boy

NO! not a new one!

Beretta/Sako has handled this whole thing miserably.
Also, I don't know of a single time in history when actions were blowing up and a manufacturer tried to hide from the whole thing. There's simply too much word of mouth, then and now, for that kind of thing to be covered up.

Until Beretta/Sako/Tikka owns up to their responsibility, and shows some basic consideration, they deserve none of our business.
I, for one, will not finance the further injury of fellow shooters, PERIOD!

Mike375, The Sako 75's come in 5 different action sizes that are proportioned accoding to the round they shoot. Length vary as do bolt thicknesses, magazine width, action width, and in all aspects necessary to properly fit a cartridge.
If never touching anything that's had a problem and had a recall is the way everyone feels they shouldn't be driving any brand of automobile. I've had 3 recalls on vehicles that I've driven and was notified exactly the same way that Berretta and Sako are notifying owners of defective rifles. They contact the sellers of the rifles and get the addresses of the owners of the affected guns and are contacting them individually. I think it would be better if they had more information on their websites and printed articles in Major gun magazines announcing the problem but they way they are doing it certainly isn't without precedent.
I own several Sako's including 2 Finnlites they all shoot very well:



The upper right group is from my 300 Weatherby 75 Hunter, I've shot quite a few similar groups to this at 200yds with premium Hunting Bullets (Failsafes):







Here is a 300 yard group from my Lightweight 270 Finnlite shooting again premium Hunting bullets - Barnes TSX:






Here is a 200 yard group from my 300 WSM Finnlite (not recalled - I checked) shooting 180gr Failsafes:






Here is a 200yd Group from my 300 Ultra Mag M-75 Stainless shooting 200gr Nosler Accubonds:



This rifle load took an Elk with 1 shot at a laser measured 536yds this year.




I've got quite a few more but you get the idea. The Sako M-75's are capable of superb accuracy. They are smoother and better made than almost any other factory produced gun available today. Yes they did have a major problem with a lot of defective materials that needs to be corrected but don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Sako has had a reputation for excellent quality for 60 years, 1 problem doesn't make them all bad. Would I buy another Sako - Absolutely yes (I'll check the serial # on the recall though) and I plan to keep hunting with the excellent Sako rifles I already own.........DJ

DJ

I was unaware that they stil made the small 222 actions etc. Sounds like Sako has a marketing problem there because a lot of people seem to think that the different diameter actions are gone and mourn the passing of the little 222 action, especially in Australia.

Mike

I own a sako 75ss in 300rum , and I have "O" issues with this particular rifle I just wonder why they strayed away
from their original caliber offerings . To answer your question... probably not as they don't offer a chambering in anything that interests me ,that I have or don't want
as a reminder remember the tire recalls ,the tire people
hid that for quite a while and it was causing wrecks that killed people.
I am still pro sako and believe they will fix this problem with failures or go under Charlie

Mike, Their Action size I is made for the 222 and 223 Remington. Check out www.Sako.fi under "Hunting Rifles" for more details. Now whether or not they import that size to your fine country down under I don't know...........DJ

dj paint, I think to compare the sako recall to an automotive recall, is not a very good comparison, We are talking about a rifle blowing up in your face, Most auto recalls don't have to deal with this level of saftey related problems. we are talking about a controlled expolsion going off inches from your face, shouldn't the first aspect of a guns design be to deal with this a safely as possible

I see they have dropped the 300 Weatherby and the 7mm and 300 Ultras.

There seems to be quite a few Sakos on the forum in 300 Wby. Would they be the standard wby chambering/throat?

Sako is much cheaper out here as compared to M70 and Rem 700 than in the US. Probably because we pay import duty and importing costs on all three rifles.

Mike

I have a Sako 75 Stainless Synth in 9.3 x 62mm - its 3 years old now and by a long way the most accurate rifle I have.

Personally I would buy another sako but at his stage I don,t know about the Stainless. I would stick to the Chrome moly for the moment.

I have a feeling this stainless thing is going to cause problems for other manufacturers, I would wait and see.

Even though Sakos of old may be more attractive guns (integral recoil lugs, single shot and target triggers available etc), a lot of the guns they produce these days are still outstandingly accurate. Until just recently (did they stop?), they still offered the 6mm PPC as a factory loading, and those guns were still some of the most accurate out-of-the-box rifles to be had anywhere.
- mike

Once a week I hunt with my 8year old son from a double high seat. I deliberately seat him to my left in the highly unlikely event of a pressure related incident from my 09 Argy I didn't want him getting a face full of gas or extractor. That Finnlite blow up would have killed or blinded/seriously injured him. No doubt at all in my mind.

I think some manafacturers need to understand that it is not enough to make a rifle safe to 150kpsi, if when it finaly goes it does so catastrophicaly. I would much prefer a rifle safe to 100kpsi if when it went, it did so in a safer and more controlled fashion.

Cummins Cowboy, In regards to your Comments:

Quote:

---

dj paint, I think to compare the sako recall to an automotive recall, is not a very good comparison, We are talking about a rifle blowing up in your face, Most auto recalls don't have to deal with this level of saftey related problems.

---

Your first comment may be somewhat valid, A lot of Automotive problems result in serious disfiguring injuries and multiple deaths. Remember the tire recalls on Ford Broncho's. I certainly don't in any way want to excuse the injuries a few shooters have received but thank God as far as we know noone has been permanantly blinded or killed. How many people were burned to death in Pinto's before they recalled them to fix the gas tank problem? The level of danger in some Automotive recalls is so far greater than this small one involving guns you're right in saying that auto safety recalls don't deal with this level of safety related problems............DJ

i will not buy a new sako as long as beretta is involved. I have a sako 75 stainless/syn that is a stoeger usa import. Will stainless sako's one day be more valuable if they were pre beretta? I dont know?

I like the 75 and the DBM and slick, short bolt throw. it need an integral recoil lug. I like the trigger adjustment while the action is in the stock. there is alot i like about it but i will not buy anything beretta, ever.

I just bought a like new SAKO AV LAMINATED .300 Win mag.

is this action machined from bar stock or cast?

its not as slick as the 75 action but it feels stronger which is important to me shooting it in .300 win mag.

Hey Mike375, Every firearm I own has "Made in USA" stamped on them, so I wouldn't be buying one anyhow.

I recognize there are a lot of fine firearms manufactured outside the USA and get tempted quite often to try one out though.

Obviously Sako/Tika/Beretta will eventually get back to producing fine firearms that most anyone would be proud to own.

But, the Sako/Tika/Beretta "Management" allowing the totally UNSAFE rifles to remain in circulation without a MAJOR "Warning" through all the Gun Rags is simply inexcuseable. Having people "in charge" of a firearms manufacturing organization who really don't care that they are blowing-up their customers, just doesn't make good sense to me. And I certainly can not understand anyone supporting them by buying more of their firearms.

Just like the S&W Management that kissed-up to clinton, the current Management needs to be axed and replaced with Management that understands. Maybe the entire "Ownership" needs to change, but since Beretta is the oldest firearm manufacturer in existance and privetly owned, I really doubt that will change.

I'd only recommend Sako/Tika/Beratta firearms to DEMOCRATS, and then in a specific Serial Number range!

hot core:

Quote:

---

But, the Sako/Tika/Beretta "Management" allowing the totally UNSAFE rifles to remain in circulation without a MAJOR "Warning" through all the Gun Rags is simply inexcuseable. Having people "in charge" of a firearms manufacturing organization who really don't care that they are blowing-up their customers, just doesn't make good sense to me. And I certainly can not understand anyone supporting them by buying more of their firearms.

---

I'm amazed that we aren't all seeing the very same issue here......we certainly saw the enemy when it was Smith & Wesson.....and rose to the occasion.....

Putting bad product in the field isn't the issue.....it's the way it's being handled!!!!

That AV action is made from poured pot metal. Why don't you just send it to me for a deluxe 5 year analysis? I just want to keep my buddies safe .

I wouldn't buy a Sako just because of the key lock. I can't get used to those things.

the new ones dont have the key lock

It's not that they had to recall the rifles that bothers me. It's that they continue to hide it and make no public announcement to try to help stop injuries. This shows a total disregard for the public that buys their guns. There's been plenty of gun makers and products of all kinds recalled and handled the correct way, and we still respect the companies involved and still buy from them.
I won't buy from some contemptable manufacturer like Beretta/Sako.

1894...

Quote:

---

Once a week I hunt with my 8year old son from a double high seat. I deliberately seat him to my left in the highly unlikely event of a pressure related incident from my 09 Argy I didn't want him getting a face full of gas or extractor.

---

The 98 mauser, including the 09 Argy, is designed to blow out on the LEFT in case of failure. The vents on the underside of the bolt face to the left when closed, allowing the gases to escape out of the thumb slot. The gas shield on the bolt shroud protects the shooter.

Gentlemen;
Was looking at the pics on the 'net over the weekend after having read this thread. I am not a gunsmith but do know a thing or two about guns and also about the strength of materials and testing of those materials. Upon looking at the pics, my first thought was; "Does anyone else find anything about this to be suspicious?" I emailed the link to an engineer friend of mine whose immediate reply was that he believed it to be a hoax.
To have a barrel fail at all with factory ammo and normal pressures would be bad enough but for the receiver to also split lengthwise? Just how bad would a batch of steel have to be? I could see a barrel rupturing and maybe fracturing the receiver ring, but to split the barrel into three pieces AND split the receiver in half lengthwise?
When steel (or any material) is strength tested, it's usage is based on it's "yield " strength. This is this point at which the material first gives under the applied load. This is readily observed on the dial of a testing machine as the needle will drop then climb again for a distance before the material actually breaks. The loading which caused the material to yield is converted to psi. This number is reduced by a factor to arrive at the actual safe allowable stress for that particular material, well below what it would take to actually cause a failure. Actually the material is said to have failed already and it hasn't even broken yet.
To get too my point, just how bad would a batch of steel have to be for it to fail so dramatically at normal working pressures given the safety factor already built in? One of my first thoughts upon examining the pictures was "This looks like the result of a barrel obstruction". This was exactly the response from the engineer friend (who is also a shooter). I agree that Sako/Beretta should issue some kind of warning or recall but I'm not so sure they take all the blame until all the facts are known.

Woodcutter

Two of the barrel makers in Austrlia have had some stainless fluted barrels split full length. As far as I am aware there were no action problems as in the pictures of the Sakos.

The barrels were for what we call full bore target shooting which is with the 308. I ma not aware if it occured with any other calibres.

Mike

Here is another person who did not know about the recall. Pending new information don't trust the people involved in handling this.

I posted this post down on another thread but I'll post my thoughts here also....Since the barrels are hammer forged and the receivers are cast on the Sako 75's, I would think they have different sources for the steel as the barrel blanks are tubes and the receiver steel would come to them as ingots(?). Since I've read they are replaceing the barrels on these rifles and that the receivers are "normal" then these receivers are spliting like a pea pod when the barrel gives way....and they are not flawed. Now....I want someone to take apart their new recalled Sako and put that barrel on a older Sako or FN action and when the barrel gives way lets see how those old actions handle it. The 75 action shouldn't be blowing apart like that even if the barrel was made of balsa wood. I think there is a fundamental flaw/weakness in the design of the 75 SS receivers and this is what Berreta is trying to hide at all costs. A universal recall over the world of all the 75 SS rifles would certainly bankrupt the Sako division of the company. Berreta is hoping that getting new barrels to hold the pressure will be good enough to cover for what is pretty obviously a "weak" action. I own a SS 75 Varmint and some older sakos and I think the 75 action while very accurate has some flaws that are not apparent to the casual observer. Just my opinion FNMauser

FNMauser, First of all do you know for a fact that Sako 75 actions are cast? I've been trying to research this and have yet been able to come up with confirmation of how they are made.
I still think that about 95% of what we are reading about this issue is speculation, fortunately a few do seem to be pursuing actual facts.......DJ

Didn't the chap on the other thread establish that Sako were not cast.

It is hard to see Sako being cast simply due to the image of "cast and cheap" going together.

Cast also has an image of something that if it is dropped it breaks. But as far as I am aware that image is false when applied to rifle actions??

Mike

I bought a Sako today: a Sako Mauser .30-06 with ugly birchwood stock from the fifties. No modern pushfeed j-k.

Regards,

Fritz

No I don't know for a fact they are cast. I've read they are cast before this problem came to light and I just acepted they were. But my point wasn't that the receivers were failing due to being cast as cast receivers are VERY stong as a rule due to not having to have sulfur in them to be machinable. My point was that receivers and hammer forged barrel blanks arn't similar at all and I would bet they come to the factory in differnt forms. And doubtful they are the same steel, defective or otherwise. As to everything being 95% speculation on that point I totally agree but who's fault is that??? Sako hasn't been exactly open about anything in this other than a very unresponsive number that I've called several times without any luck and yes I've left my rifle's serial number and my phone number WEEKS ago. Their silence is to me a very loud statment that something is rotten in Finland (my apoligies to Shakespear). Guns are not covered under the consumer protection laws of the gov't, as who would want some guy in DC saying what he thought was a "safe" gun or not. So the firearms industry is self policeing. Its up the companys to make sure their arms are safe and not a danger. Sako has failed miserably ,obviously, on making a safe gun and they have failed in my opinion in being open and honest about it. They are not saying what the trouble is, why they are blowing up, because they don't want US, their customers, to know. I would love to see a Tikka that has "let go" and see how that receiver handled it. If Sako came out and said the receivers were out of the same steel and were bad also it would be a great relief to me frankly. But they've not said $&) about it other than "trust us that one is safe to shoot" or "that one is recalled". So yes everyone is speculating about what the trouble is...how and why they are blowing up....and if a full moon is the cause, and that will continue till Sako decides that their silence is going to cost them more money than the truth and that hasn't happened yet, but I think it will. FNMauser

FNMauser, you make an interesting postulation on the receivers being rotten along with or possibly even without, bad barrels being the culprit. I saw one of the Tikka rifles that had failed and it looked just like the SAKO's we have seen here on AR, barrel split into 3 pieces and receiver split down the middle.



I don't know if it is related but I have been told about and/or seen 5 other rifles which suffered catastrophic failure. One of them was a SAKO 75 stainless gun earlier this (2004) year. The owner acknowledged that he had mistakenly loaded the cartridge that destroyed his rifle with pistol powder. I don't know if it lends any insight, but the destruction pattern looked just like these guns we have seen recently {as I described & we have seen here on AR}



Additionally I have seen an Winchester Model 70 that failed due to a barrel obstruction and although the barrel was only in 2 pieces, the receiver looked much the same as these SAKO/Tikka failures--basically split down the 'centerline'



I have been told of 4 other rifles that failed catastrophically, and in 2 of these cases the receiver 'was just fine' and in the other two the receiver had split. I do not know, but perhaps some of our more knowledgeable members could speak as to the typical failure mode of a rifle (especially the receiver) when there is catastrophic failure.



I have spoken to the folks at the Beretta recall line twice, and they have yet to send me written confirmation of my guns safety, but they have verbally told me that none of my guns are included within the recall. They also have told me that they have tracked the problem down to being a "bad batch of barrel steel" I had posted this previously on another thread on the topic, and Beretta/SAKO also contacted the dealer where 4 of my SAKO 75's came from and told him the same thing, and he contacted me and told me this as well.



In deference to not hijacking the thread, I would buy a pre-Beretta M-75 with the express intent of rebarreling the rifle, unless your postulation proves to be on point and we learn that we have heinous receivers as well!



Regards--Don

I never would have bought one to begin with, does that count? :-) I do like what i have read and seen pictures of one of the new Tikkas, but still would be unlikely to buy one, no dislike just a preference for sporterized military arms.

Red

Would I buy another Sako 75? Sure would, whether it be stainless or CM.