I need a new (longer) action screw for a VZ 24 mauser action. I don't have any means of measuring the one I have. Can anyone help me out with diameter and threads per millimeter or centermeter. I don't know a damn thing about the metric system.

Thanx in advance!

Hip

They're not metric. They are 1/4 - 22 TPI.

Yes, most people don't know that the Paul and Wilhelm did not use the metric system on their receiver threads. Why? Were they drunk that day? Barrel threads are 12 threads per English King's toe.
Speer knows and I will await his answer.

Thanx Guys-----that was quick!!! 1/4" x 22 will make things a whole lot easier! Home Depot here I come!

Hip

Actually it was hypothetically based on the kings foot, not his toe. But I don't think there is documented proof of that. The english system is based on the perfect number 666. The yard is 36 inches. 1+2+3+4+5+6+7 all the way to 36, I believe adds up to 666 which is the number of man, or the beast in the bible. If memory serves, the english system was designed as the (tradesmens measurement system). All of the measurements, from inch to fathom are based loosely on the human body. Also, all of the units, except for the inch are triangular numbers and square numbers and can be divided by 2, 3, 4 and 6. Handy if you want to build something and don't want to use fractions or decimals. Canada is metric, so is most of the world. Plywood is still 4 x 8. Floor tiles are still 6 inch or 10 inch. 2 x 4s are still 2 x 4 green and 4 x 6s are still 4 x 6 green. Governments like metric because it sounds cool and they can divide everything by 10. Metric helps you if you happen to be a snowflake and you count on your hands and toes and have nightmares about fractions.

In short, the French invented the metric system because they found out that men around the world were endowed with six inches. The French wanted six too, so they invented centimeters !

That, is a true story too ! ! ! ! ! ! ! No shit. I read that in the National Enquirer and later on Facebook so it's gots to be true.

Rod,
That's interesting about the French!

Do you know how a French girl holds her Likker?------By the ears!

Hip

quote:

Originally posted by Hipshoot:
Rod,
That's interesting about the French!

Do you know how a French girl holds her Likker?------By the ears!

Hip

I know that french women have their routines and are pretty no nonsense and impatient. If they aren't in bed by 8:00, they generally finish their wine and go home !

I believe everything you said.
Hip, bad news; you will not find that screw at home depot or any other depot.
It is not a standard SAE size.

From a little math 12 TPI is damn close to 2mm pitch.

and small ring dia is .980 well 25mm is .9842"
and large ring dia is 1.100" well 28mm is 1.102"
I just think the stuff is close enough to imperial threads not to matter. I would like to see a shop print with the call out an Paul Mausers signature on the print.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I believe everything you said.
Hip, bad news; you will not find that screw at home depot or any other depot.
It is not a standard SAE size.

1/4 x 20 tpi is standard, I believe.

Actually, if you lay a 2mm pitch gauge on a Mauser barrel thread you will find that it miss matches by about .015 inch on the last thread. The barrel threads are 55 degree, 12 TIP, British Whitworth threads. Contrary to what people think, the gaurd screws are not really 22 TIP Unified. They are actually 55 degree, 22 TPI British Whitworth as well. I believe all of the other screws in the Mauser, lock screws and the bolt stop, housing screw, are German metric.

That's correct; they are not just accidentally "close" metric sizes; they are English inch threads.

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
From a little math 12 TPI is damn close to 2mm pitch.

and small ring dia is .980 well 25mm is .9842"
and large ring dia is 1.100" well 28mm is 1.102"
I just think the stuff is close enough to imperial threads not to matter. I would like to see a shop print with the call out an Paul Mausers signature on the print.

Diameter is close but 2mm equals 12.7 tpi, which is much closer to 13 tpi than it is 12.

Look at the plans in the Argentine Mauser book. The blueprints if I remember right list the diameter in mm and the threads in TPI at least for the 1909.

One would suspect that Herr Mauser chose that odd thread for the M98 guard screws to ensure that if some careless solder lost the screws out of his rifle he couldn't replace them with hardware store jobs rather than confess. Same theory for the Springfield (1/4" x 25) and the Enfield. (1/4" x 30)

Speerchucker: You might prefer the Imperial system to Metric, but there's a lot of people who don't, myself included. I was a land surveyor all my working life, practically a professional measurer. I had to work with the Imperial system for 23 years, and it was a pain. Then, in my country, we changed to metric - for everything. You'd need something a lot more persuasive than a sharp pitchfork to get me to go back to the old system!

quote:

Originally posted by redrover:
One would suspect that Herr Mauser chose that odd thread for the M98 guard screws to ensure that if some careless solder lost the screws out of his rifle he couldn't replace them with hardware store jobs rather than confess. Same theory for the Springfield (1/4" x 25) and the Enfield. (1/4" x 30)

Speerchucker: You might prefer the Imperial system to Metric, but there's a lot of people who don't, myself included. I was a land surveyor all my working life, practically a professional measurer. I had to work with the Imperial system for 23 years, and it was a pain. Then, in my country, we changed to metric - for everything. You'd need something a lot more persuasive than a sharp pitchfork to get me to go back to the old system!

I suppose it boils down to where you are from and what you do for a living. Canada was divide into ranges, townships, sections and quarter sections back in the 1800s. All of the land of course was sold in square miles. So of course the kilometer is not used in land descriptions and if it is it is used with its decimal, 258.99 because nothing is one square kilometer. It works fine if you say: "I got about 259 hectares, and say it fast" But of course it's not close enough to pay your taxes with and the inaccuracy gets larger exponentially. If you have a quarter section you have just under 65 hectares. So its a bit of a nightmare. In the plumbing, carpentry and many other trades they still use the english system because all of their materials are in english. In my trade, as a machinist/gunsmith we are still mostly working in english because our materials and most shivs, bearings, fittings, tooling and almost all steel (unless it's special order) is sold in inch measurements. The drawings we get from engineers and draftsmen are all in metric so you either work in untranslated metric with materials you buy in fractions of an inch or flop it over to english and work in fractions of an inch from materials that you purchase in fractions of an inch. Normally when I get drawings on disk, I simply load it into autocad and switch it over to imperial and then print it out.

For the Millennials who never have to measure anything or build anything the metric system is great. They have no idea how long a millimeter, centimeter, decimeter, meter or a kilometer is or how much a henways. So metric is easy for them. They took it in school and promptly forgot about it. The old english system means even less to them. All they know about metric is that it is supposed to be simpler and that's all they know about weights and measures.

I can see where it would be simple if everything you used was metric. But for us who have to transpose everything from one language to another without changing the standard sizes of everything we use to match the new system, it's simply one long winded decimal. A (121.92 x 243.84 sheet of plywood), is still a (4x8 sheet of plywood).

We were taught metric in school of course as our primary form of measurement and imperial as a secondary. So I am perfectly fluent in both systems and use both systems every day. On a rare day when I get a metric drawing, have metric materials and the threads happen to be in metric, I switch over the DROs and I work in metric. But I use the english system for (REAL WORLD APPLICATION) and if I have to make something like a fence, a room, a roof or anything basic like that which requires geometry, I switch over and work in feet, and inches. It's square numbers, triangular numbers and it's all fractions and fractions are simple.

The little bit of gun pluming I do it always amazes me. The odd screw sizes the gun companies use.

It can get a bit frustrating.

I did find that a Mossberg 144 target rifle used a common thread size to hold the receiver sight on. A 12x24 I believe it been awhile.

I found two that looked really nice on the rifle at the local farm supply store.

Not original but they work well.

I did say it was close I just didn’t know for sure if the numbers had been corrupted over time and we were cutting barrels out of spec. But in the context of things being in the late 1800’s when standards were not exactly rigid. It doesn’t surprise me that the specs are all over the map.

Yous guys really got me comfoozed! That stuff is way over my head. My action screw is 1.665" Where can I get one about 1/8" longer. I really don't want to be messing with the stock to get the one I have to fit.

Thanx! Hip

Forster makes action screws for the 98.

May be an option if you can't find the correct length. A while ago I was in the same boat. I took two surplus screws and made one long one by tig welding. I also have some blank screw stock quite long with oversize allen heads and may make one if you could stand the labor charge.

Jim

How do you get one longer? I will make you one; PM me if you want that.

1891 Mausers are longer than 98 . Also if you only need a little you can undercut the head .
Works for timing the slots too .

Zir, Thanks I'll try Foster. Someone else mentioned MSC Inc. I'll look into that too!

I'll also look into the M1891 Arg.

Gary thanks for the info----I always wondered how they aligned the screw slots on fine firearms.

DPCD and Jim Kolb, Thanks for the offers, I'm going to try the easier ways out first.

Hip

MSC doesn't stock that size. It is a Mauser specific size.

I have NEVER, seen 1/4x22 TPI screws anywhere but Brownells or Midway. I have inquired at a number of fastener places over the years and always with the same results. When you bring it up you always get that:
"BOVINE STARE!"

Buy the ones specially turned out for Mauser rifles, or get on the lathe and make them.

Just checked Midway-they have the Foster screws in stock $5.99. It appears after looking very closely that someone Had shortened the screw for some reason. A new one just might work---it's worth a try!

Thanks Hip