Two entirely different concepts are being batted around and there seems to be some confusion as to whether or not they are in fact a single concept. One concept is precision manufacturing and the other concept is artistry.

I used to own a stake in a manufacturing company that made thermoplastic composites and Teflon-alloy parts for the aerospace industry and other applications. We molded or extruded the material and then machined parts to spec. We turned out incredibly precise parts, some of which are still on the moon or in orbit elsewhere in the universe. Some of these parts packages would sell for tens of thousands of dollars and weigh but a few pounds. None of these parts could be replicated by human hands alone. Also, none of these parts had a �soul� or �warmth�, as I�ve heard Ralf Martini describe it. This is precision manufacturing.

Michelangelo�s David, and some other finely executed artwork (including certain fine firearms) appear �warm� and seem alive in the hands. Like true living creatures, they can have beautiful lines and form, and can appear perfect in terms of form and function. They may not stand up to the scrutiny of optical comparators and laser measuring systems. In fact, they might be rejected by ISO certified QC departments because they have some measurable flaw (like David�s oversized hands). This is of no importance because the concept at hand is artistry not precision manufacturing.

Actually, there is a significant amount of precision manufacturing that goes into custom gunmaking. It is a necessary, even critical, component. Precision manufacturing alone though constitutes less than 20% (by my count) of the skill involved in bringing a fine custom firearm to life.

There is a large constituency of firearm enthusiasts who view their firearms as tools alone. That�s a reasonable, but impoverished, point of view. I think those folks are missing out on a significant amount of the enjoyment to be had in our hobby.

As an aside, did you all know that Michelangelo Buonarroti was only 26 years-old when he completed his most famous statue of David? I find that remarkable.

This has become an enjoyable campfire debate.

Forrest

Triggerguard, not to change the subject or nothin but where are my two MRC 1999 extractors your shop has been promising to send every week for the last 4 weeks? I don't doubt their precision but they're doing me no good sitting on your shelf.

You're original premise was assinine in my opinion, as is undrafted bottom metal. It does make a tiny bit more sense knowing you're not wasting good walnut. But I still don't believe a CNC can "perfectly" inlet a piece of full fiddleback walnut, there's just too much difference in the ajoining grain structure.
Twice I've seen CNC experts copy all the parts for an entire single shot rifle action, and none of them could even begin to fit and assemble the parts. They had to hire a gunmaker and he had trouble because they didn't understand what they were making.
CNC manufacturing does not a gunmaker make.

And I've seen CNC machines in operation at F.illi Rizzini in Val Tropia Italy (you probably have never heard of Italy's finest gunmaker) and Perugini & Visini in Nuevolera, at Ballard rifle, TCJC and several non-gun locations. But in each case the gunmakers made the guns by hand. I've seen a Ron Long programmed High Wall, and him fit and assemble the parts by hand, but Ron's a gunmaker, I guess you're not familiar with the term.
Machines make parts, not guns, especially not fine guns.

SDH

Ivo and Tulio might disagree with your assertion that the brothers Rissini are the best gunmakers in Italy

I should have noted F. Rizzini side by sides, I don't think Fabri would object to that.

Thanks for all the posts. As usual any thread that gets much response tends to start a pi---- contest. I guess I should clarify what I was after. I have a piece of cherry that is about 4 inches by 14 inches by about 3 feet. I could start with a small chisel or just sandpaper. I said I had time. Not a life sentence I was working on. I just had in mind getting it in the ballpark prior to putting my time in. After all this discussion some of you are on such a different level I am not sure this is a project I want to start. It may be much better for me to just work a bunch of overtime and pay someone to do it right. Thanks D

Dhunter,

This forum has a real problem with topics being sidetracked thesedays. Dont let these guys discourage you, go for it! You said it doesnt have to be perfect, something to the effect of "a handle for the rest of the gun". There are lots of places that will turn your wood into a semi fitted blank for a nominal fee, or if you so choose you could shape it yourself with a few hand tools. The most important thing to remember is that once you remove wood you cant put it back on, take your time, think it through and enjoy. If youve got a piece of wood that you really like then you might try doing a few practice blanks first.

Dhunter don't get discouraged, Ive made quite a few with basic woodrasp and as I get farther along I will down size in files till I'm using a 4 inch and the one I start out with is 14 inch. I always get rid of the real thick stock by running it though a planner. Then cut the shape out with a band saw, then start with the rasp. Probably wouldn't satisfy alot but you only have to please God ,wife and yourself ! Good luck Bill

Ill try to lay out for you what I've gleened from here thus far. If your interested in sources for getting your blank turned into a semi, just ask, you'll get some reccomendations and ballpark prices.



Otherwise, first layout your pattern on the blank then cut it out with a bandsaw. If you dont have access to one a local school woodshop may be able to help you there. IMO the hard part is the inletting. Start with your bottom metal first, this can be done with chisels and scrapers, etc. Get yourself some inletting black from brownells and the closer you get the more carefull you need to be, a small nick of wood taken from the wrong place will stick out like a sore thumb. Stay away from power tools like a dremmell for this phase too. After youve done the bottom metal then you'll need some action pins to line up the reciever with the bottom metal. Once the action is all inletted and youve made a barrel channel then its just a matter of shaping it up, some handy tools for this are a spoke shave, rasps files, a sanding block, an oscillating sander, and I sometimes use a small block plane. A pretty good link for doing a semi inlet is here;



http://riflestocks.tripod.com/bstock.html





Hope that helps, good luck!



Byren

Great site...thanks for posting it.

I love the cigarette filter sanding block he uses on the flutes. I use those round cotton jobs the dentists stick in your mouth after they yank a tooth and they work pretty well because they are very dense. Erasers on pencils work pretty good too for getting into small areas.

For all of the "perfect" guys out there "erasers" are things used by us humans when we make mistakes!



Rick

I think Peter B hit the critical issue. The medium in which we work dictates the necessity of the hand of man on the spindle.

We do both CNC and Panograph, and Panograph always wins in the precision game because of the changeable nature of the wood under the cutter.

Rod,
Well said and from someone with some experience in that area. How is your business going? I am assuming that your absence has been due to being up to your neck in work. Best to you.

Someone once said: The more I know, the more I know I don't know.

If ever there was a credo to live by, this is it. We've been willing to experiment and maybe this is taking us in the right direction. We are making headway on the backlog, mostly by adding capacity in checkering and final shaping. Makes me feel better but has the sales side nervous.

Thanks for the good thoughts.