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How many of you gunsmiths or customers have been charged for an estimate? I recently sent a gun to a Gunsmith for an estimate on repairs. The cost was more than I wanted to spend and asked him to send back the rifle. I was paying postage both ways. He informed me there would be an $80.00 charge for the estimate. I only ask is this a standard in the gunsmithing buisness? If your parents didn't have any children chances are you won't either. | ||
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That's pretty common. Brownells lists a range for cost estimates or appraisals as $35-70. Clemson NRA Endowment Member US Army Veteran CWP Holder Gunsmith | |||
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If I have to determine the condition of a barrel for a possible replacement, and if I have to clean the bore and run a borescope, I charge for that. But I can usually rule on the condition of a bore without resorting to that. If I have to test fire a customers gun to diagnose a problem, I charge for the time and ammo. If I am giving an appraisal for an insurance policy, I charge for that. But if I'm just giving the gun a quick eyeballing, sticking my finger in the chamber and having it cough, I don't charge for that. However I probably should charge a co-pay.  _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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The " Correct " procedure would have been to inform the potential customer there would be a service or estimating charge " Prior " to the shipping of the weapon . Everyones time is of value , some don't consider that working others do . Right or wrong isn't the question , it's " Knowing " this going into an arrangement . There are a very good many of persons on this forum who give advice and their knowledge as well as experiences FREELY !. I would like to THANK EACH AND EVERYONE OF THEM !. I also now have a pretty fair Idea as to who to send my work too. It's obvious to me they KNOW their TRADE !. Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...  | |||
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Yu'll like this: Years, ago Bruce Stevens, a double wizard out of Pleasant Hill, CA...I was there during he following conversation: Customer: "I'm here to pick uop my gun" Bruce: "Here you are, that will be $15.00" "What was wrong with it?" "Oh, I couldn't fix it" "Well, why the charge?" "I had to take it apart" Why did you take it apart if you couldn't fix it?" "I didn't know I couldn't fix it until I took it apart!" | |||
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A good gunsmith whom I respect used to keep an "NRA" jar on the counter. For those simple repairs like driving in a sight blade or checking out a firing pin that involved 2 minutes worth of work while the customer stood there at the counter, the gunsmith usually directed the guy to put $5 in the NRA jar. When the jar was full, the contents went to the NRA. NRA Endowment Member US Army Veteran CWP Holder Gunsmith | |||
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He should have informed you before you shipped the gun, I rarely charge for such stuff but probably should. For example, and I have lots of examples of my own. If you go to a doctor to have him look at a peculiar rash on your legs. He has his nurse take your blood pressure and temperature, ask you a few questions, and the doctor comes in. He looks at it and says I'm not sure what this is I'm going to refer you to a specialist. Guess what? I still pay my copay and my insurance is billed for an office visit. I'd like to make good money just for telling people where they can get their guns fixed  .I'm not complaining, just pointing out if more Gunmakers ran their business like this we wouldn't have to have second jobs. Shane Thompson | |||
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Labor rates vary through out the country. But skilled trade labor usually runs between $60 to $100 hr. So splitting the difference cal it $75. One hour of labor seems a little excessive for an estimate. Now maybe he had to unscrew the barrel or disassemble a portion of the gun so it could be justified. I suspect he/she has a 1 hour minimum. But as others said, prior notification is appropriate. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I have a lot of acquaintences who would love to know where they could get jobs that pay that kind of money for their skilled labor. | |||
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Another Classic Malm!  | |||
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Financially speaking, some of us are such that we don't have to carry malpractice coverage. I know some who should. _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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You got to pay to Play!! $75 is not too much to exam a high grade gun, but $35 dollars to check out a Rem. Mod. 1100 is too much. If you are set up to work fast a cleaning, replace a couple of minor parts, and test fire should be about $50 charge plus parts. A twenty minute job!! If you can't make at least $200 per day you want be in busy very long. The food stamp line is getting longer every day with people that don't understand how to work with people. | |||
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Oh I don't know about that, I've been doin' it full time for about 30 years. Of course my tax man say's I should probably apply for 501(c)3 status. _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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Getting a job and being paid $60-$100/hr is very different than owning a business with all the overhead involved and having a shop rate in that category. | |||
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Well Stated James ; There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE in owning a shop employing others and working out of ones home shop . I think we ALL can agree that no matter what the charge , it should have been UP FRONT KNOWLEDGE prior to any shipping . When I consult on or set up an operation ( Not Medical ) industrial chemical coating or composite fabrication operations , then I charge a Standard rate plus expenses , Air Fare, Car ,Motel , meals things like that . How ever the clients know this prior to my involvement . If said company is within 100 mile radius then said expense is far lower than 2,200 miles away for the exact same job . To be honest Most are 1K - 8K miles from my home . Secrets are customer killers !. Be UP FRONT and there is never going to be a need for an excuse . Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ... | |||
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I wouldn't disagree with that one bit. | |||
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That's not the point I was trying to make. Getting a job means you are working for someone else. Not working out of your own shop. How could you have missed that.  I work out of my home shop and have most of the same overhead as other larger companies that employ others. Don't you think my shop rate should be competitive with shops that employ many? Personally I think the one man shop turns out better quality work than you could ever get from someone that's punching a clock and just chicken hawking the clock every coffee break, lunch break, end of shift, end of the week. The harder/smarter I work the more I make. The hourly employee has very little interest in the bottom line. Just wants more $ per hour. Too many $$$ get spent on company politics and rarely end up paying more per hour for better/faster work. I've been on both sides of this fence and I can assure you I take more pride in the work I'm doing now then when I did basically the same type of work while punching the clock for someone else. IMHO the customer is getting much more for his money with the one man shop. Providing the one man wants to build his business with return customers and word of mouth advertising. | |||
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Dave I'm curious what kind of work you charged for an estimate? I would think the possibility of charging for an estimate should have been established from the get go. The high price of having nothing done to your firearm could have eaten up a few hours in total of the shop's time from first answering your inquiry to tearing down the firearm to assess the problem to carefully packing and driving to the Post Office to ship it back to you. The guy that billed you the estimate may have a $60/hr shop rate and after spending 2 hours in total on your firearm thought he gave you a good deal at $80. He should have told you up front before you sent your weapon. I spend lots of time answering emails and private messages that never end up as a job in my shop. Some of these messages go back and forth 10 or more times. I don't get paid for my time doing this either. Maybe I should get my own 1-900 phone # and block all PMs and emails. This would let me spend more time working on billable hours. Might be a little on the rude side. However, I really like hearing from my return customers.  | |||
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If I'd received a firearm in the mail and worked up an estimate then didn't do the work but repackaged and shipped the firearm I don't think $80 is too far out of line. And as for the contacts that don't become work, I get a ton of those too. I've taken to using one of those Bluetooth gizmos on my ear. With that I can usually keep working while answering questions; it really helps keep production up even though I think it makes me look like a Borg, and we're not talking Seven-of-nine here either! John Farner If you haven't, please join the NRA! | |||
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Kinda reminds me of the appliance [washer/dryer] repaiman [?] in Hawaii. You call him and he comes out and makes his estimate. He tells you before he comes there will be a 35.00 "estimate" which will be applied to the repair bill. Well! He comes out and makes the estimate. Hell! You could buy a NEW machine for about 25.00 more so of course you say no thanks and pay the 35.00. Found out later he makes LOTS of $ on estimates and NEVER fixes ANY! What a racket but legal I guess. My feelings? He should have informed you first. Aloha, Mark When the fear of death is no longer a concern----the Rules of War change!! | |||
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She is the only reason to watch a rerun of that show. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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The only point I was attempting to make was . What ever a person chooses to charge for a particular job is their own business !. So long as that fact be known to ALL PARTY'S prior to any money transaction . How ever OVERHEAD in a Shop which employs others is MORE EXPENSIVE than an individuals shop . What the charge for the Job is isn't the point in this case !. That is a NO BRAINER !. An individual controls his or her cost in so many different ways , where as a Commercial shop doesn't enjoy that luxury !. Not every shop or company employs Hourly wage employees , some are salaried and some are Co owned . You're right if you accept a Job or work , then you are employed by others !. I would also agree that an individual shop has more of your interest at heart quality work is what brings customers back . Price is soon forgotten but the quality of the work NEVER IS !. IMO . Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ... | |||
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To me, the issue is not that there was a charge, but that all parties did not know this beforehand. The only way to prevent this suprise as a consumer is no matter what the item- a gun, appliance, car, or house- is to just candidly ask at the end of the initial conversation whether or not there is a charge involved with the estimate. for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside | |||
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Dr. K, the overhead amount is only relevant to the revenue. If a shop has employees and therefore higher overhead then revenue should be higher as well. There's a lot more involved with a profitable business than one item called overhead. John Farner If you haven't, please join the NRA! | |||
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Thank You John ; As I am fully aware of this fact . Having Co-owned a business with 56 employees many years ago I became very familiar with each and every aspect of Ownership and Financial responsibility . Later owning my own business with 32 employees for several more years . I then changed occupations after my Degrees . Finally settling on my Own one man shop !. The Overhead went WAY DOWN the profit least wise in my cases went WAY UP in my own shop and the customer was actually paying less for my services than in other shops ?!. I had both salaried an hourly employees in both shops . The overhead is pretty easy to figure going way down I didn't have to lease or purchase a Monster of a building and wasn't strapped monthly on Payroll , insurance, utility's transportation , fuel, maintenance Etc. My shop is fully equipped and grossly under staffed , which is the way I prefer it . As I and I alone am responsible for the work I produce and price . I've had MORE WORK than I can really handle or want to , since announcing my retirement 2 years ago . They will wait is what their telling me!. Don't worry about that 30 day trip I'll be here when you get back !. One Man Shops produce MORE loyal Customers / friends than any other I've ever encountered . It just goes to show one never really knows everything !. Including ME !. As I've stated for Everyone to read . I'm NOT a GUNSMITH so I don't know that particular business . The point was Customers are entitled to know EVERYTHING UP FRONT least wise pertaining to money their shelling out !. Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ... | |||
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Well.......... Yes it should have been told to the customer ahead of time, but it seems many are not asking a good question. what exactly did you send it there to find out about doing? Not only would I not expect a free estimate on something I shipped knowing they are at least going to have to repack it and depending on shipping method take it to the post. but depending on what I was asking for I'd know what they were going to have to do to give me a good estimate. If it is something that required the gunsmith seeing it I'm guessing it is somewhat involved. Just my contribution. Red My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them. -Winston Churchill | |||
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Unless it was clearly stated beforehand that there is a charge for an estimate, and under what circumstances, I think that this is disgraceful. Please NAME AND SHAME! On the other hand if you were advised that a strip down (and obviously if sent back re-assembly) was needed and that it would be charged at xxx per hour for that then you have no complaint. It would help us to know what the estimate was for and on what sort of gun... | |||
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In UK we don't pay anything. Or the specialist, or the surgeon or for the hospital time. Or the cost of the operation or the equipment and material used. We do have to pay the parking in the hospital however. It's called the National Health Service..."Healthcare" to you in USA. | |||
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Does the government cover your dental work as well? _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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I'm quite familiar with the UK national health care system; a very dear friend of mine died whilst she was waiting on a list for a simple pacemaker surgery. The waiting list was over 18 months and she only lived 3. I'm confident there are thousands of similar stories, but we digress. John Farner If you haven't, please join the NRA! | |||
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No. Not totally, but dental work is subsidised. A crown would be about US $ 400.00. | |||
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What do they charge to bed and float?  _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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Westpac, I guess the Gov. pays for that also. Butch | |||
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What? Like in plane making? | |||
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When a customer brings a gun into my shop for evaluation, most of the time I can estimate the cost pretty close while the customer is there and of course there would be no charge at that point. If it requires disassembly and or test firing to analyize there will be a small fee which is credited to the total bill. I always advise the customer of this policy on the first visit. One other thing related to this subject. When the customer request work or repairs, I always quote the cost and at the same time in front of the customer write that fee down with the instructions on the tag. I also inform them that if I find anything wrong that is expensive to repair, I will call them before proceeding. Example: Detail strip, clean, lube and test fire (49.00) Tune trigger to 3.5 lbs (39.00) etc. etc. People dont mind paying a fair price for work done as long as they are aware of it ahead of time. Maybe that is part of the reason I am severely backlogged and have to turn a lot of work down. Craftsman | |||
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I was a contractor around Denver for 25 years.Never once was I paid for an estimate.I got paid for my time if I won the job. Some bids took a week or more to put together.If I told the developer or builder I wanted to get paid for the estimate they would get it from the ones who do it for free.In the long run it still worked out for me.Years ago when I had rifle work done the cost was always ball parked on the phone before the gun was sent. | |||
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DannyH ; You can say that again !. No one ever paid for an estimate in construction contracting I did either . Lets see if memory serves me . Pickup Blue prints , take materials list off , get copies to sub contractors if any ?. Then material supply houses IF They would do a take off estimate ?. Some would others wouldn't. Then you had to do your own including labor estimates which vary all over the map , depending on several factors . Travel time ,Fuel , insurance # of employees Line up the paper work . Cross all T's dot every I Then Submit it . Then HOPE you got the Job !. Then PRAYED you got your draws and no monkey business in between !. All the while being out of pocket expenses for HOURS AND HOURS of behind the scene PRE JOB PREP !. Only to have some schmuck come along ask the owner or developer what their bids were . Then slash it by a few $$'s and get the job . Well they out bid you !. You were to high so next time sharpen your pencil . How about certain contractors or developers who used YOUR BID for securing the job , only to award it to some one else !. I can even remember one time a developer asked for " Full Disclosure " on Estimates !. Meaning Material Take off LISTS , LABOR COST and same from ALL Subcontractors working under you !. I submitted a Estimating bill for him prior to giving any information . Which went unpaid !. Never got the info either . Theirs one born every minute . Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ... | |||
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Exactly Dr. K | |||
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