I don't like lever guns and I want 45-70 level two performance in a bolt gun. I am thinking about rebarreling a Win M70 CRF WSM action. The bolt face should work, as well as the mag box. Feed ramp may need some work. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks Z

You might as well go for the 458 Winchester and load it down to the 45-70 level if desired. It should be very easy to load it down to the 45-70 level. This way you would have a true big bore if needed but at the same time can be used to shoot with the same ballistics as the classic 45-70.

zman....I have one built on a short-action Rem 700 with a PacNor barrel and MPI stock. Fairly ltwt and a very nice shooter...haven't shot it much but I have found out you can load it to get 4000 ftlbs of energy with a 400gr bullet without any signs of excess pressure. The problem is mine is so ltwt the recoil is more than a little stiff.....as a friend said "It kicks hard enough to give your whole family tree a headache" (not really but you know you've shot a thumper.

Although they didn't build my rifle Clark Custom Guns (or 10-22 and 1911 fame) are advertising them and I would trust them to build a good one. The fellow at Sisk Custom Guns has built at least one but his prices seem a bit steep.

I like mine over a 458 WinMag because of the short action...it balances much better for short-arms like mine and before anyone comments about bolt-throw etc...that ain't it. Build it and enjoy it.

Z Man,

Winchester's custom gun shop advertises the .450 Marlin on a Model 70 short action with a 24 inch barrel. Check out www.winchester-guns.com for further details.

Good shooting!

Clark Guns has posted on their web site that they have stop offering this conversion.

I'd suggest building a 458 American and that way you'll NEVER run out of brass. The Marlin uses a proprietary case and you're at their mercy for price, quality and availability. That's a total deal breaker for me.

I shot whitetails and hogs for years with an American and 400 gr Barnes bullets in a short action M-77 Ruger. Great caliber, great results. Make cases out of almost anything with a belt.

I'm not sure why everyone is concerned about "running out of brass" every time a new round is introduced. I think this is especially true of the 450 Marlin as there are a lot of lever-action shooters who don't reload and like the power of the 450 over the factory 45/70's.

Plus, I bought 200 rounds of new Hornady brass (which is very high quality) for $88.00 plus I've had non-loaders give me their brass. I expect I will either wear out my shoulder or the barrel before I run out of brass....but what if I don't and you can't get ammo or brass anywhere.....it isn't that big a deal to rebarrel.

my vote goes to jbelks suggestion. especially if you are using a wsm or a rem saum action. that would simplify things GREATLY.
check around on a rebarrel for the model 7 or 70.
j belk, what was the oal for the american with 400 barnes? just curious if the model 7 magazine would ever be an issue?
thanks
woofer

Woofer--

I sold the rifle 30 years ago, but by measuring the magazine on a vintage short action M-77 I'd say they were about 2.7 max. I've done a dozen of more in M-600/660 magnums without a problem.

A funny aside-----

458 Americans will shoot in a full lenght 458 WM chamber. Accuracy is not the best but they do work.
Many years after I sold the M-77 American I ran across some of my mild reloads using 350 grain Winchester bullets and was shooting them from a 458 WM Ruger #1A at a range in Colorado.

As so many times happens, some know-it all greenhorn with an even newer partner came up and the "expert" started telling his buddy all about something he had no idea about. It was aggravating to say the least and he was getting on my nerves so I offered to let him shoot it. In the ammo box was a half a box of full house 458 WMs loaded with all the 3031 it'd hold and a 550 gr. Barnes solid. I slipped one in and reminded him to hold it tight.

This guy was about 300 pounds and all of it very soft. The unscoped #1 seemed to sink all the way to the grip cap in his shoulder when he touched it off!! He didn't cry but he leaked a little. His buddy decided to pass on that particular pleasure.

You touch on one of the reasons the 450 Marlin "may be a better choice" than the 458 American.

The 458 American or 458x2" could fit into a lot of chambers that don't have a .458 bore. The wider belt of the 450 Marlin precludes anyone from chambering it in a regular belter magnum chamber...no matter how big the hole in the barrel.

You think it couldn't happen but don't under estimate how careless/dumb some people are...not you and me or course just some other people.

DBBill---

Good point, but if that were the case there would me many more accidents involving the other belted mags.

I've seen 338 Win Mags that fired a 350 Remington Mag. (shooter bought according to bullet weight, not caliber) and a bunch of 30-06s that shot 25-06 ammo (they kick less). A 358 Win in a 30-06 wrecked everything but the M-98 bolt and receiver but didn't hurt the shooter.

I'll admit that the thought of touching off a 458 American in any number of larger case-smaller bore rifles gives me a case of the vapors.

yeah, that would make me leak a great deal. BOOM.
gives me the shivers with a visual.
still, the american seems quite appealing. how do you suppose it would cycle through a pump or auto?
it would resemble a straight wall 350 mag case cut .170"?
i know some people that would wet themselves over that one.
thanks for the update.
adios
woofer

Thanks for the replies. I already knew about the Win custom shop and Clark guns. I'd like to do as much work as possible myself though. I did consider the 458 american and decided I'd rather go with the 450 Marlin because of the longer belt and factory brass. I do reload and not having to make brass frees up time for me. It may be some time before i undertake this project but I think it will be a winner.

Zman

Gents,
I have a 458x2" American in a P-14 action. All the above reasons for not having a .450 swayed me to the American,,easy brass availability,pretty powerful, And as I get accustomed to the full house rounds I can gt it reamed out to the Lott. That will allow me to shoot the American,the 458Wm and Lott's more. Pun intended. I destroyed a 44mag spinner at 50' with a 400gr at 2000fps out of my American,,,and it leaves no doubt you have touched off a big bore. 45nut