My gundealer told me that the rem 700 VSSF varmint rifles have a stainless action but a steel bolt therefore they do not gall is this correct ??

No.

What galling problems on the bolt guns are you talking about? I have stainless rifles as well as stainless sixguns and I have not seen any galling problems with any of them. Is this a fact or a fiction or just in your head? Thanks.

PC--

A chrome-moly and SS combo is *less* likely to gall than a stainless on stainless rifle.

Keep a smear of STP or Lubriplate on the rear of the lugs and the cocking cam and don't worry about it.

NEVER use gunscrubber---brake clean (same thing) or alcohol to clean it. Use solvent or deisel fuel instead. You never want SS plumb dry in high friction/high pressure applications.

Galling in stainless steels is a metallurgical fact with a very SIMPLE solution.....lubrication.

FWIW,
I have more than a few Stainless Remington 700/40Xs and all appear to have a stainless bolt/action while the lugs appear to be blued steel. Is this a carbon steel lug section mated to a stainless bolt?

Regards, Matt.

Jack,

You got this kid brainwashed on this stainless steel and galling issue. This subject is becoming a joke every time I see it. We have been thru this subject before and is getting old to rehack it again. There is no denial that any soft grade metal will likely to gall whether it is in stainless, chromoly, titanium, or aluminum. The fact is that galling is not an issue on most stainless steel guns so please do not make a big deal out of it. Thanks.

You know, I once threw a cigarette into a can of gas and it didn't blow up or catch fire. Thus, I can only conclude that gas is not explosive or flammable.

Double tap. Sorry.

[ 05-23-2003, 09:43: Message edited by: z1r ]

Mingo: Next time you're on vacation in Montana, stop by MRC and volunteer to put a few stainless actions together. Might change your perspective a little. I did about 30 one week and it sure was an education.

Now the finished product is just fine, but the labor to get it there is no small issue.

This is sort of a tangent on the initial question;
Have any of you with the SS Remington Actions noticed poor interior finish on the receivers? I owned a VSSF that had what looked like galling running parallel to the centerline all through the bolt raceways. The exterior finish however was perfect. Never saw anything like it in the CM Rems (or any other maker for that matter).

Mingo---

Last Sunday a local guy stopped by the shop to ask me to look at his BRAND NEW M-77 Mk-II 22-250 Ruger. It had less than thirty rounds through it and had just completed it's first rockchuck shoot.......and the action was not salvalgeable. Both lugs had galled on the face and torn chunks from the lug recesses (seen by mirror, I didn't pull the barrel).

Yes, He was shooting hot loads he'd used in other rifles for years. Yes, he forgot to re-lube after the initial clean-up. No, the factory won't help without $$$ payment.....reloads, you know.

I don't write this stuff to "scare" people. I do it to try to help.

Mingo,

the topic just interests me a little mate , I only own two stainless rifles one a vssf 22/250 and the other a ruger MK11 30/06. All my other guns are chrome moly.

Just trying to gather as much imfo on the topic as I can so I can make educated choices for my future purchases.

Thanks for the responses folks

I promise not to raise this issue again

Jack,

I did not mean to stir up the pot but this stainless/galling issue seems to occur on a few isolated cases and should not be generalized. Again, I have stainless rifles as well as sixguns and have never seen this galling problem. Would improper fitting and maintenance play a major role in the galling problem that you have encountered with these stainless rifles? The galling effect usually takes place only under the right conditions and usually involves time, pressure, material properties, environment, and assembly to be in effective. Also it seems to me that a problem can arise from an assembly as a result of improper fitting but interpreted as a galling problem, which has little to do with the stainless material at all. Thanks.

Mingo--

Of course the galling happens when things aren't right. Otherwise nobody would make guns out of it.

As I've said before, the problem arises when people DON'T maintain the guns properly. The most common and damaging is the lack of proper lubrication.

The last one I saw had been cleaned of the factory grease with gun scrubber and not re-oiled but the reloads had a smear of case lube on them. The combination of a case that slips in the chamber and lugs that are slammed back into dry stainless steel welded them together. I suspect the bolt face was also out of square which applied even more frictional forces to the lug surfaces. That seems to be a common denominator in the galling I've seen.

It IS a fact of life. Stainless steel IS prone to these failures. There ARE ways of preventing it. Stainless steel is NOT the maintenance-free material it's being advertized as. Lubrication is absolutely necessary.......MORE so than traditional materials.

I've galled chrome-moly Remingtons before and have seen an early M-98 galled beyond repair. Had they both been stainless steel the galling would have occurred much quicker and at a lower pressure level.

Fit plays a part because the pressure is applied to a smaller area in ill-fitting parts.

Roughly machined mating surfaces with no lube is an invitation to a ruined action.........and that's exactly what I'm seeing in the shop. Roughly made stainless steel actions that have been blasted to chemical cleaniness and shot dry are subject to ruination at a LOWER pressure level than the same action from chrome-moly.

It's a fact of life that must be dealt with. As long as the writers and companies tout actions that don't need routine maintanece I expect to see more of them.

BTW-- There's nothing on a revolver that takes enough pressure and friction to gall but autos can rip chunks out of the rails.

Jack,

Everything is crystal clear and undestood and thanks for the insight! Based on your insight, a properly fitted and lubed ("perfect" mating surfaces) STAINLESS STEEL bolt action rifle should be gall free for a long time. Is this statement correct? I bet that some people who read this thread and understand its content will ask the same question again in the future. Thanks.

I just purchased Montana Extreme gun grease for my lapped lugs in a stainless receiver. Is this a good lube, and just how much should be applied to the lugs? also, how often should reapplication take place? Thanks

Galling ( cold welding) depends mostly on material, hardness, surface finish and forces applied. Any of the greases that are designed for high pressure applications such as shotgun hinge pins will due better and those are usually prescribed for stainless also.RIG +P is just one of a number of such lubes. A thin layer is all that's needed, to be replaced as needed.

I galled the lugs on a pre-64 Model 70 many years ago. I was shooting a silhouette match and using neck sized brass that should have been full length sized. It chambered hard and I just cammed all forty rounds into the chamber. I found the galling when I cleaned the rifle. It was shallow and polished out easily but it is sickening none the less.

I use a thin film of automotive cam shaft installation lubricant to lube lugs. It is a high pressure grease and a lot of it contains moly. I like to clean the lugs and relube often because grease plus dirt equals lapping compound.

As Jack said galling is less likely when disimilar materials are used. The chances of galling are also reduced when the two pieces are of different hardness. I suspect Remington uses chromoly for the bolt head mostly because they have it. SS is sticky. That is one thing I have always hated about the Hall BR actions. It has usually been stainless actions on which the barrel threads picked up on removal.
Chromoly actions are not a lot better though if they are on the soft side and if the receiver and bolt are similar in hardness. The recent Kimbers are a case in point. Sticky.
In any event, Remington may have gone with chromoly for the bolt head to minimize galling. I suspect they did it out of expedience. They used what they had! Regards, Bill.

honestly, how hard is it to wipe a little bit of lube onto your lugs? Properly clean and lubricate your firearm and it will function properly for a very long time. Fail to do so and you run into problems like galling...

Galling on new assembly was exactly what my post referred to. Newly machined SS parts need to have their engagement surfaces polished, smoothed, or otherwised worked to prevent galling. Cocking piece to sear, cocking piece to shroud, shroud to safety, safety to cocking piece, shroud to bolt, bolt to receiver and even bolt to follower. Think about where all those pieces touch each other and you begin to appreciate the labor involved in making them work together. By comparison, the 4140 almost assemble themselves.

Running a 1/2-13 tap into the stainless bolt to smooth the threads - covered with tap-ease, it still squeaks all the way in and all the way out. Sounds bloody awful, but there is not a trace of chips from the Rc 48 bolt. After a couple of passes, things get a bit better.

Perhaps Weatherby is giving the evidence.

Their cheapest rifle the Synthetic is chrome moly and their Accumark is a chrome moly action. If these forums are a good guide then most Wby sales seem to come from the Synthetic and Acccumark.

Of the main manufactures Wby is the one that can least afford to have galling with extraction cam as the Weatherby does not have much primary extraction to start with.

Mike

I have to log in here. I sold my Nesika Bay actioned rifle to a friend and she cleaned the lugs too well. The result was terrible galling! I had to lap the lugs and set the barrel back for her. Keep those lugs lubed!