I've been told by a couple of sources that break free is the best cleaner. Ofcourse at the next place they hate it. I've always use sweets and hoppes. Anyone who can share there experiences.

I don't consider BreakFree to be the "best" at anything, but it is "good" at a lot of things.

For bore cleaning, I like Shooters Choice, or Sweets when it gets bad, etc.

For lube, rust protection, etc, I also have favorites.

BUT, a small 1 oz flip-top bottle is always in my gear when I'm hunting, at the range, or will be doing anything with a firearm. While it may not be the best at everything, it certainly is convenient. It sure beats carrying a bottle of copper solvent, a bottle of powdwer solvent, a can of oil, some grease, etc, etc, etc, in my pack. When I need any of the above functions performed, I know I can do it satisfactorily with BreakFree, until I can get a more "proper" solution.

Break-Free isn't a cleaner, it is a lubricator.
Solvents are what 'clean' a gun.
They include Hoppes, Sweets, Shooters Choice, Butch's, G96, etc.
I like Butch's for cleaning the bore, but anything works with a toothbrush inside the gun.

-Spencer

Break Free CLP is originally a military gun oil, is intended to clean, lubricate and protect. Of course, as a cleaner it is abolutely hopeless against metal fouling, but it will remove some powder fouling. It is ok as a lubricant and for rust protection.

CLP is pretty much useless stuff. Unfortunately it is what we in the Army are stuck with unless we supply our own cleaning stuff. Which I do.

CLP used to have Teflon in it and that made for a fairly decent lube. But a few years ago they removed the Teflon and now it isbt good for much except as a rust preventative. And that it does only a marginal job of.

Stick with any of the good commercial solvents and you will be much happier.

Sinclair International recommends against using anything with teflon in it in your bore. Apparently some problems have occured with it melting when you don't want it too and causing worse fouling than it cleans.
I like wipe-out for bores, hoppes for nostalgia and FP-10 or Miltech for a lube. JB's for the nasty stuff........DJ

My Bushmaster Varminter functions better when lubed with Breakfree. I don't use it for anything else.

I will tell you and all these other guys to for- get the asking and to try it, Take the time to get the bore really clean with what ever your favorite miracle in a bottle is. You know unable to show anything but a clean patch. Then take a clean patch soak it with Breakfree and push it down the bore if it still comes out clean then you know your bore solvent is great and the guy that told you about Breakfree was not free of, but full of shit! I found out about Breakfree by accident, and will not go back, and I've use it all boys when it comes to bore solvent. So far Butch's Boreshine is the best, doesn't matter what I use now, I finish with Breakfree and get it clean. I have never told anyone to not clean the bore in there regular way, but I will tell anybody to try the Breakfree just once after your normal cleaning and to see if the patch comes out clean. I do not look at Breakfree in any other way than as a aid to cleaning the bore. As an aside, it breaks in new barrels faster than any other product I've ever used. DO NOT TAKE ANYBODY WORD FOR ANYTHING, TRY IT FOR YOURSELF!!!!!!!

BreakFree is just OK as a lube but pretty useless for anything else. I use Sweets 7.62, JB or/and Shooters Choice mostly Sweets though. Light oil for storage CLP or ProShot All Weather oil. I tried Pro Shot copper solvent and it's pretty good stuff, not amonium base from what I can smell. Almost as strong as Sweets.
bigbull

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Originally posted by M1Tanker:
CLP is pretty much useless stuff. Unfortunately it is what we in the Army are stuck with unless we supply our own cleaning stuff. Which I do.

CLP used to have Teflon in it and that made for a fairly decent lube. But a few years ago they removed the Teflon and now it isbt good for much except as a rust preventative. And that it does only a marginal job of.

Stick with any of the good commercial solvents and you will be much happier.

---

You are wrong about the gov't and cleaning materals they use, I have used and made a study of cleaning materals and methods, the gov't has provided over the last 150 years and never found them to lack in anyway when it comes to how they want you to clean and protect there property. I'am sure if any of my friends ever heard anyone say that I like our goverment they would laugh their asses off! But when it comes to cleaning and protection of anything that goes bang, when Uncle Sucker speaks, I follow like a sheep. I ve been a student of the gun all my life. And I would hope you take this the way it is ment and work hard to prove me wrong! "PROVE ALL THINGS, HOLD FAST TO THAT WHICH IS TRUE"

I like Break Free for general purpose cleaning. It's nice stuff to wipe skin oils and perspiration off the outer finish. I use Sweets 7.62 for copper fouling and bronze wool for lead fouling.

A huge benefit to using Break Free, as opposed to, say, Hoppe #9 is that the smell of Break Free is undetectable to wives. I get to clean my guns indoors, and I don't have to hear about it.

H. C.

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Originally posted by BFD:

quote:

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Originally posted by M1Tanker:
CLP is pretty much useless stuff. Unfortunately it is what we in the Army are stuck with unless we supply our own cleaning stuff. Which I do.

CLP used to have Teflon in it and that made for a fairly decent lube. But a few years ago they removed the Teflon and now it isbt good for much except as a rust preventative. And that it does only a marginal job of.

Stick with any of the good commercial solvents and you will be much happier.

---

You are wrong about the gov't and cleaning materals they use, I have used and made a study of cleaning materals and methods,

---

While you've been doing your study of cleaning materials and methods M1Tanker has been out in the field defending our country from the inside of an Abrams tank. What he has to say about this carries considerable weight with me.

If you haven't found better gun cleaning and lubricants than Break-Free you haven't tried very many........DJ

It may not be the best cleaner, but it darn sure is the best rust preventative. If you don't believe it, take some nails, coat them with different products, and then spray the nails with salt water.

Someone on this forum (I think) did this test and posted pics as well as elapsed times before rust set in. Really remarkable.

I did this test and was blown away at how much better the Breakfree did. It took days before I got any rust. Some of the others took only hours.

Here's a link to the AR rust test.
They haven't posted Breakfree yet,

http://www.accuratereloading.com/rustest.html

........DJ

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Originally posted by BFD:

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You are wrong about the gov't and cleaning materals they use, I have used and made a study of cleaning materals and methods, the gov't has provided over the last 150 years and never found them to lack in anyway when it comes to how they want you to clean and protect there property. I'am sure if any of my friends ever heard anyone say that I like our goverment they would laugh their asses off! But when it comes to cleaning and protection of anything that goes bang, when Uncle Sucker speaks, I follow like a sheep. I ve been a student of the gun all my life. And I would hope you take this the way it is ment and work hard to prove me wrong! "PROVE ALL THINGS, HOLD FAST TO THAT WHICH IS TRUE"[/QUOTE]


There is a big difference in what Uncle Sam has on the books for us and what we can actually get our hands on. CLP being about the gun easiest cleaning product to obtain. It is seriously lacking in its cleaning and protecting abilities. Even the fine dust in the air is attracted to it like a magnet. No matter how well you wipe it off of the metal it will be covered in dust and worse in a very short time.

The good news is that the Army saw the light and has adopted some new products for us. Most of the commercial solvents are available through the system. But in reality it is extremely difficult to get them.

Militec is becoming much easier to get through the system and I have found it to be a superb product. Dust doesnt stick to it and it greatly reduces friction. It offers great surface protection. It doesnt clean well but it lubes and protects (especially in a dusty and sandy environment) better than almost anything else I have ever used.

I do not use break free any more.

I used a lot of it about 15 years ago to oil up my parts I made to sell.

After about 3 years I started to see this brown one half dried varnish like stuff on the parts.

Break free will dry out and leave some of the most toughest gooey stuff to try to get off.

Maybe this is why Weatherby stopped sending that small tube out with their guns in the 90's

Jim Wisner
Custom Metalsmith

I've tried Break Free as a cleaner. Pulled some dirty patches out of the bore, then finally a clean one or two. Then, for curiosity, ran a patch of Sweets through the bore...yep, dirty blue patches.Some times a clean patch just means that the particular treatment isn't going to loosen-up any more crap than it has already.

Although I use Break Free for about 90% of my gun cleaning needs, I came to appreciate its dust-attracting properties on a recent vacation to Arizona.

I imagine any oil you leave on metal will attract dust, and I doubt Break Free is magic in this regard. Johnson's paste wax ( a little laborious by comparison) and Dri-Slide may be a better way to go if you expect dust.

H. C.

<<I like wipe-out for bores, hoppes for nostalgia and FP-10 or Miltech for a lube>>

Hmmmmmm, Hoppes. The first step of my end of the hunting season deep cleaning is to open a bottle of Hoppes and put it on the bench next to me. I don't use it for much except a final swab of the bore, but the smell sure puts me in the right frame of mind to clean guns!

quote:

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Originally posted by M1Tanker:

quote:

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Originally posted by BFD:

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You are wrong about the gov't and cleaning materals they use, I have used and made a study of cleaning materals and methods, the gov't has provided over the last 150 years and never found them to lack in anyway when it comes to how they want you to clean and protect there property. I'am sure if any of my friends ever heard anyone say that I like our goverment they would laugh their asses off! But when it comes to cleaning and protection of anything that goes bang, when Uncle Sucker speaks, I follow like a sheep. I ve been a student of the gun all my life. And I would hope you take this the way it is ment and work hard to prove me wrong! "PROVE ALL THINGS, HOLD FAST TO THAT WHICH IS TRUE"

---

There is a big difference in what Uncle Sam has on the books for us and what we can actually get our hands on. CLP being about the gun easiest cleaning product to obtain. It is seriously lacking in its cleaning and protecting abilities. Even the fine dust in the air is attracted to it like a magnet. No matter how well you wipe it off of the metal it will be covered in dust and worse in a very short time.

The good news is that the Army saw the light and has adopted some new products for us. Most of the commercial solvents are available through the system. But in reality it is extremely difficult to get them.

Militec is becoming much easier to get through the system and I have found it to be a superb product. Dust doesnt stick to it and it greatly reduces friction. It offers great surface protection. It doesnt clean well but it lubes and protects (especially in a dusty and sandy environment) better than almost anything else I have ever used.[/QUOTE] I don't know that Breakfree wasn't known in another life as LSA (lubericant small arms) it looks and smells the same. I don't know but I have a hunch that the mil-spec's the same for LSA and BREAKFREE. Now what was LSA used for, you might ask? M-134, M-60's,M-16,M-5, can't remember the number for the 20mm cannon ect,ect. now none of these weapons used this lube for just rust prevenative, the purpose was to reduce friction of the moving parts. My MOS in the service was 45B20, 45J40. 45B is small arms repair, the 45J is aircraft armament repair at the field through depo levels. My two tour in Vietnam (unlike John Kerry) took 24 months, all this time was spent working on these weapons and systems. Without this type of lube the high speed moving parts in the delinking feeders, the rotor sections, feed trays,operating rod, bolts, would not stand up. Dryslide I first started using at the National matches in 1967 and it had it's place (still does) while good it does not take away heat. sweets I've used for many years. I do not believe it is as good as the higher ammonia content GI bore cleaners of the 1930's till present. A vary good bore cleaner can be made at home that is far more effective than sweets (and I don't mean ED's RED) All this barrel fouling is in layers and has to come off in layers. Let me in passing give you and idea of unintented consiquences from inproper bore cleaning. In 1965-1966 the American public heard about the militarys lack of cleaning equipment for the newly issued M-16's (without cleaning kits) rifles being deployed to the guys in Vietnam. As always our fellow citizens opened there hearts and wallets and sent 1000's of cleaning kits to there fellow Americans in harms way. The kit that was sent contained a jointed aluminum cleaning rod. these caused the loss of many 1000's of barrels due to the aluminum deposits in the bore that quickly corroded. by the time the folks back home heard about the problems with the M-16 they thought the problem was cause Johnny did'nt have a way to clean his rifle. The problem was three fold. Not all upper recievers had forward assist, propelent problems in the issue loads. But the biggest problem came from Macnamaria refusal to let them chrome the chambers and bores, this was a cost savings measure. When I worked at the Redball on Hawaii (25th Div) where all weapons were returned to, for major repair. We scraped alot of barrels because of those good old Hoppes cleaning rod sets. On avaerage a 40 ft. cattle car a day of these rifles would come in to us. (neat to watch an electro magnet on a crane reach in to the bowels of a ship and come out with enough to fill a cattle car) Anyway, somtimes, what we think we know, just ain't so! Been there, done that! And are we having fun yet?

Like yourself I am also 45B20 qualified. I will have 16 years in SEP and hold the 11B, 19K, and 27X MOS's. I have also been to the National Match Armourers Course. Plus I shot competetively for the Army. And I did very well thank you.

CLP (Break Free) has been around for a long time. It is NOT the same as LSA. Are you sure you didnt mean LSA-T for the weapons systems you mentioned? LSA-T is the same as LSA but has Teflon added for better lubrication to moving parts. It is not meant to be exposed to high temps like the regualr LSA is. If you remember LSA comes in a toothpaste type tube and is thick and slimy. Nothing like CLP.

The main bore cleaner that has been issued to troops was and still is known as RBC (rifle bore cleaner) Most soldiers dont even know it exhists. If the unit armourers and supply guys would order the proper stuff and not just order CLP because that is what they are led to believe is the stuff to use we would have far less weapons maintainence issues. Take a look in any of the current TM's and FM's. You will see that CLP is not even mentioned. But they still list RBC for cleaning. For lube (mainly on crew served and machine guns) but also for the M16/M4 molybdenum disulphide is the lube of choice. For surface protection Militec is what is now reccomended. Cleaning with CLP is a waste of time in my book. Its solvent properties are next to none and leaves behind a very hard to remove oily residue that allows dirt and carbon to stick to it like glue. CLP also has a low burn temp and leaves nasty deposits and build up when it is used in action and other high temp areas.

Just in case you are wondering, these findings arent based on just my own experiences, which include a lot of deployed time and combat time also. They are based on the CALL (center for Army lessons learned) studies and findings. I completely respect your time in Nam but things have changed a lot since then. Not only in weapons technology and what we use to maintain them. But also in how we use them.

I'm a mechanic in the Army. Thank you very much.

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Originally posted by 323:
I'm a mechanic in the Army. Thank you very much.

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You may be a mechanic but where has the CSM got you working????

We need to go do some shooting before you take off for school in a couple weeks.

If you remember LSA comes in a toothpaste type tube and is thick and slimy. Nothing like CLP.

No I do not remember it in a paste form but in the same form in large half pint size squize bottles. I've never seen the paste form! After my tours in Vietnam I was sent back to Weapons command and was shipped around to different commands per diem. ie. General Electric Proving Grounds, Conn. for test and development of systems such as the You see in the Apache weapons systems of today, these systems where developed jointly with Emerison Electric, MO. Weapons command Hawaii(Redball). The LSA of that era contained no teflon. Nor does Breakfree today contain teflon! It shows none on the lable nor has the tell,tale odor of teflon. After using , I've recommend it's removal from the bore using 91% Alcohol or higher. Moly is great stuff when used in many applications. It's limitaions are with the applied travel agent. We found this to be the case at the Artic test center in weapon trials and evaluation. Same at Aberdeen Proving grounds in the decade long work on the Abrams main battle tank. Same problems were seen at school command in Georgia in areial weapons traning. I'am glad to hear that the proper cleaning materals are still around and can be ordered. Your problems are a personnel, supply issue and not one of lack of material in the inventory. This in this old mans day were addressed in commanders call, (when the senior nco's talked to the old man). Best of luck! I still stand by my statement that the goverment knows, has the best materials, to make sure their property funtions and is well maintained!

quote:

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Originally posted by M1Tanker:
CLP is pretty much useless stuff. Unfortunately it is what we in the Army are stuck with unless we supply our own cleaning stuff. Which I do.

CLP used to have Teflon in it and that made for a fairly decent lube. But a few years ago they removed the Teflon and now it isbt good for much except as a rust preventative. And that it does only a marginal job of.

Stick with any of the good commercial solvents and you will be much happier.

---

I had always used Break-Free for a lubricant, and was not aware that the silicon had been removed. Guess I won't buy a new bottle when the one I have (about 5 years old) is used up. I use Birchwood-Casey Sheath as a rust preventative.

No, Break-Free and LSA have never even been similar. I did find that LSA kept things from rusting in RVN, but I don't believe Break-Free was an issue item yet when I was there (1967-68.)

In the retention office. Hey I saw you in the chow hall flipping burgers yesterday? I didn't know you were a Spoon. As you all know this isn't tru ol M1 is doing some highspeed 96U training with MI here on post.
Have a nice Army day!

quote:

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Originally posted by 323:
In the retention office. Hey I saw you in the chow hall flipping burgers yesterday? I didn't know you were a Spoon. As you all know this isn't tru ol M1 is doing some highspeed 96U training with MI here on post.
Have a nice Army day!

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After looking at imagery for the last 2 days I am ready to go back to tanks in a hurry. It is no wonder MI guys are a little wacked in the head.

Will your wife let you come out and play this weekend? If mine will let me out lets go shoot some big bores.

Why not, I do not have any bigbores down here though. If you ever get bored I can have my dad ship my 404 down here. I should have my 9.3 hopefully next week.

Wasn't Break Free developed to be a penetrating oil? To Break Free rusted nuts and bolts, etc?
Don

From what I understand that was one of its origional intents and what it was origionaly developed for. Where it came into use in firearms is that it worked really well to break up the carbon deposits on the M16. But it required soaking in CLP for quite a time to do it.

quote:

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Originally posted by DMB:
Wasn't Break Free developed to be a penetrating oil? To Break Free rusted nuts and bolts, etc?
Don

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I think the stuff was originally concocted to clean electronics parts by one of the big telecommunications companies, then it was found that it was great at removing powder and primer fouling.

If I recall, one of the first military applications, or perhaps performance tests, involved removing the fouling from the .45/70-sized primer chambers in the breechblocks of separate-loading artillery pieces such as the 155mm howitzer, 8" howitzer, 175mm gun, etc.

We have convoy live fire training next week then the next day our weapons have to be guaged. So they have to be super clean, so I will be heading down to my old hang out the motorpool and clean my weapon in the solvent tank like I usaully do, then I will give it a good wipe down with some CLP.

I will bring some Militec over for you to use. You will really appreciate the difference.

Lucked out do not have to go to the live fire training so you can keep your Militec. CSM got me out of it, man it is great having the CSM in your corner. No crazy ass training unless he has to do it then I have no choice but to do it.

Break Free sells a dozen products:
http://www.break-free.com/

1995 article EVERYTHING YOU POSSIBLY WANTED TO KNOW AND MORE

The parent company is:
http://www.armorholdings.com/home/

When I posted that I bought a life time supply of the CLP Break Free before they supposedly changed the formula to be less toxic:
Nt 9-11-2000 post on Break Free

I got many offers from those who wanted to buy the stuff. I have now used 20% of my stash. Does that mean I have 20 years to live?



Anyway, I don't use the CLP stuff much anymore.
But I do use Break Free brand Bore Cleaner.



I buy this product in quart cans I use to fill 4 ounce squeeze bottles I take to the range.

What I like about the bore cleaner is that it smells good and disolves the products of combustion is a few seconds and is wiped away with a clean patch. I can then begin the horrible long stinky process of trying to get the copper fouling out.

BFD, isn't this teflon?

4. REDUCING METAL-TO-METAL WEAR: The multiple
ingredients in BREAK-FREE CLP include
polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) which forms a
boundary film in support of the lubrication
properties of BREAK-FREE CLP. The thin barrier
film that adhere to metal after contaminants are
removed maintains it viscosity without drying out
or evaporating. BREAK-FREE CLP keeps working
from -54 to +246 C(-65 to +475 F).

That paragraph came from the break free sheet. I was told by the gunsmith that did my 280 AI with a Lothar Walter bbl to never use a product containing teflon in a rifle bbl, specifically Break Free. I don't remember what the reason was but I don't use it in the bore anymore. Living near the ocean, I prefer Corrosion X, and don't have any problems. I do run a few patches soaked in Kroil down the barrel followed by dry patches before a range trip though.

Alan

I would hate to introduce hear say into the gun culture [for the first time, and ruin the field's virginity], but ....

I HEARD that the Teflon burns and forms something crunchy that abrades the bore.

I have also HEARD from Terra Grease representatives [who better to get scientific truth from?] that getting a pistol barrel hot and swabbing and burnishing with Teflon will get the Teflon into the pores of the steel, making the barrel fore ever ~ 200 fps faster and clean as instantly as a Teflon frying pan fouled with fried egg.

--
Be careful what you pray for, it can happen.