The "controlled, push-feed" action is basically a push feed bolt with the bottom of the bolt face opened up to allow the cartridge to feed up under the extractor as you feed the round out of the magazine rather than pushing it in front of the bolt into the chamber and then the extractor snaps over the cartridge as the bolt is locked.
headache
Posts: 158 | Location: Danbury, CT 06810 USA | Registered: 25 March 2002
It sounds like an ad writer's attempt at muddying the water.
If a bolt has a plunger-type ejector it is a push feed action.
If it has a fixed ejector and a slotted bolt face it's a controlled feed action.....IF the cartridge slides up the bolt face BEHIND the extractor when it feeds.
I haven't seen the action you're reffering to, but I would imagine it has a short over-ride extractor that snaps over the cartridge rim AFTER the cartridge is chambered.....that makes it a pure push feed gun no matter where the ejector is or how it works.
quote:Originally posted by JBelk: It sounds like an ad writer's attempt at muddying the water.
If a bolt has a plunger-type ejector it is a push feed action.
If it has a fixed ejector and a slotted bolt face it's a controlled feed action.....IF the cartridge slides up the bolt face BEHIND the extractor when it feeds.
I haven't seen the action you're reffering to, but I would imagine it has a short over-ride extractor that snaps over the cartridge rim AFTER the cartridge is chambered.....that makes it a pure push feed gun no matter where the ejector is or how it works.
From the Winchester website:
quote:CRPF: LET US DEFINE IT. Control Round Push Feed (CRPF) is a new design that lets the bolt face control the cartridge from magazine to chamber, but with a push feed style built-in, bolt face extractor. Since it utilizes a blade-type fixed ejector, the shooter controls the amount of ejection by the speed the bolt is worked. Ideal for shooters who save their brass. No matter if you cycle in shells from the magazine or load them one at a time, the base of the cartridge is quickly captured and securely guided to the chamber. The round does not dip, dive or jam into edges upon closing the bolt.
Having seen the new Winchesters with this type of bolt, and watched rounds load from the magazine, I can assure you the bolt face controls the cartridge from magazine exit to chambering. The bottom of the bolt face is milled off and the cartridge rim comes straight up into the grip of the extractor mounted on the right lug as it leaves the magazine.
The extractor does not snap over the cartridge rim after the round is chambered.
Posts: 2206 | Location: USA | Registered: 31 August 2002
Is this similar to the Anchutz model 54? (I think that is the model), I grabbed an old issue of rifleman last night to flip through and saw a picture of it. The bottom was milled off of the bolt face so the the .22 shell could slip up under 2 claw extractors, one on each side. Interesting design.
Red
Posts: 4742 | Location: Fresno, CA | Registered: 21 March 2003
I had the chance examine one of these controlled, push-feed Model 70s at my favorite local country gunstore and we took it out back to test function, etc. We didn't shoot it.
I can tell you that while the the action fed and functioned just fine, the workmanship and quality was not what I'd put my money into, and it was a big step down from those Classic CF actions built before the move to South Carolina.
I'm still wondering how many Winchester rifles are in the market made in SC. Every single new Winchester Model 70 I've seen still says "made in New Haven, CT" on the barrel.
Also, the "new facility in South Carolina" is none other than FN Manufacturing Inc's factory in Columbia. That's where the FN FortyNine pistol, the M-16, the M-249, the M-240, the FN P90, the FN FiveseveN, and the FN SPR rifles are all made.
Hardly a chop shop.
Posts: 2206 | Location: USA | Registered: 31 August 2002
quote:Originally posted by Dago Red: Is this similar to the Anchutz model 54? (I think that is the model), I grabbed an old issue of rifleman last night to flip through and saw a picture of it. The bottom was milled off of the bolt face so the the .22 shell could slip up under 2 claw extractors, one on each side. Interesting design.
Red
Yep. Only the Winchester has one extractor on the right bolt lug.
Savage has used a similar design for several years on its DGR.
This is a picture of the bolt head of the Savage Safari Classic rifle. The Winchester Controlled Feed Push Feed bolt is nearly identical.
Posts: 2206 | Location: USA | Registered: 31 August 2002
I can't speak for the quality as I don't own one yet. The design however is quite good. Imagine a post 64 M. 70 without the plunger ejector and with the bottom of the bolt face milled away. The ejector is a fixed blade like a classic 70 and the extractor is pure post 64. It IS a true controlled feed. The other nice feature about this setup is the fact that rebarreling is a lot simpler without the cone breech or the extractor cut to make ala the M 70 classic.
Gabe
Posts: 410 | Location: Granite City, WI | Registered: 10 March 2003
I guessed wrong. It's a pure controlled round feed.
As I said above,
"If it has a fixed ejector and a slotted bolt face it's a controlled feed action.....IF the cartridge slides up the bolt face BEHIND the extractor when it feeds."
So, it is a CRF action.
Now the question is: Why would the ad writer muddy the water by calling it a push feed? It's as much controll round feed as a 1911......and not all that different.
The other nice feature about this setup is the fact that rebarreling is a lot simpler without the cone breech or the extractor cut to make ala the M 70 classic.
Plus actions can be set up so barrels can be changed between actions.
I like CRF because you can run cartridges through the magazine and not have to close the bolt. I like CRF because you can push the bolt forward and only need to turn the bolt handle down to fire, but if you change your mind you don't need to close the bolt to extract the cartridge. But if you also like M70s and want to be able to move barrels between actions then the Mauser type CRF prevents that.
One advantage this action retains is the "twisting" force as the bolt is opened since the extractor still rotates with the bolt.
What are the disadvantages as compared to the normal CRF extractor? Are there any?
Mike
Posts: 7206 | Location: Sydney, Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
Though I haven't measured, it must have slightly less purchase on the rim verses the classic action. Splitting hairs. Otherwise only advantages. Now if only Winchester could build it with consistent quality control.
Gabe
Posts: 410 | Location: Granite City, WI | Registered: 10 March 2003
quote: What are the disadvantages as compared to the normal CRF extractor? Are there any?
It takes more force to extract when the extractor is moving with the bolt. You have to add the frictional forces of the extractor against the rim to the bolt lift equation.
The probability of shaving brass from the rim is increased greatly.
I don' think you will be able to detect much difference in bolt lift......the push feed Winchesters with the same extractor are usually very smooth . The old long extractor would be much stronger , in my view .
What I wonder is what this modification has done to the gas handling characteristics of the action . It seems to me , if you take an enclosed-cartidge head push feed , and lop off the bottom of the bolt head , you have changed the possible flow of gas drastically.........likely not for the better ??
Posts: 1660 | Location: Gary , SD | Registered: 05 March 2001
