Pacific Tool and Gage just announced this:

PTG BOTTOM METAL
For all of you that have been patiently waiting on the different types of precision machined bottom metal and trigger guards we have just finished the following:
STEEL Winchester Super Short Action
STEEL FN Police Super Short Action
STEEL Remington Long 700 Orbendorf Release
ALUMINUM Remington Long 700 Orbendorf Release
ALUMINUM Remington Long 700 Remington Release
STEEL Remington Long 700 Remington Release
STEEL Long Tactical Remington 700
STEEL Short Tactical Remington 700
STEEL Model 7 Remington
ALUMINUM Remington Short 700 Orbendorf Release
STEEL Remington Short 700 Remington Release
ALUMINUM Remington Short 700 Remington Release
STAINLESS STEEL Remington Short 700
STAINLESS STEEL Remington Long 700

We are not finished with the following, but are working on it:
STAINLESS STEEL Remington Short 700 Orbendorf Release
STAINLESS STEEL Remington Long 700 Orbendorf Release
STAINLESS STEEL Winchester Long Action
STAINLESS STEEL Winchester Short Action
ALUMINUM Winchester Long Action
ALUMINUM Winchester Short Action
STEEL Winchester Long Action
STEEL Winchester short Action
We will let you all know as they are completed. After these are finished we will start the Howa, Weatherby and Mauser Bottom Metal. By this time next year, we will be producing all types of bottom metal and detachable magazine styles. And YES, all at an affordable price; starting at $84.00 and up. We will NOT charge more than time and material.

Butch

Does that mean we need to order the one we can't get from you know who?
Butch

Sure would like to know what kind of quality we can expect. Hope they are not brash enough to make Mauser bottom metal in aluminum and stainless!

Who used to make a blued rifle with silver bottom metal, was it Kleingunther??

Rich

I can't wait to see their products!

quote:

Who used to make a blued rifle with silver bottom metal, was it Kleingunther??

I think it was Shultz and Larsen. Might be wrong, memory failing quick.

Hey! Steel bottom metal for a Remington 7!! Yippie!!!

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Does that mean we need to order the one we can't get from you know who?
Butch

No, it means that no matter how inexpensive they are they won't be much good if they don't work and they don't look good.

If Duane Wiebe, and Ted Blackburn, and whoever owns Sunny Hill have to charge between $300 and $500 for their bottom metal then there has got to be something that is really different if this guy is going to sell it for under $100. What could it be?

Perhaps they can make them cheaper because they make make a lot of other fine products and have the know-how and equipement to produce things more efficiently. I find it difficult to believe the they will produce Mauser bottom metal, especially magnum box bottom, that will compete with Duane Wiebe in terms of proper design. I think that they would have to consult with someone like Duane to "get it right".

Economies of scale.

With the downturn in the aerospace sector up in the Northwest, perhaps Dave had some CNC machines that were not booked twenty-four/seven.

The final finishing and super smooth feeding characteristics will always take an experienced artist/master craftsman.

The guys at PTG are smart and there's a reason they didn't start out with integral box units for the Mauser. I won't be holding my breath to buy one for $84.

I don't believe true economies of scale exist in the Mauser bottom metal business. Overall demand is low and each cartridge family requires unique dimensions and that means short production runs. CNC machines require a lot of uninterruped hours of operation to pay for themselves; this isn't likely with traditional Mauser bottom metal.

Luckily for the rest of us, Blackburn and Wiebe are willing to go broke trying to prove my thesis wrong. God bless 'em.

here is a pic of the remington 700 long aluminum with oberndorf release, its a flawless fit with wyatt extended magazine, I wont use anything else for remington. I hope dave has plans for Mauser, win 70 long drop box's in mild steel



this was about $100 absolute bargain.

I doubt Dave K will have any problems designing bottom metal, what does he have that isnt the highest quality? I love sunny hill drop mauser and win 70 375length, havnt seen Duane's, but iam sure if Dave has plans for Mauser and Win drops they will be top quality

Dave do you have plans for the Mauser, Win 70 375length drop?

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Does that mean we need to order the one we can't get from you know who?
Butch

No, it means that no matter how inexpensive they are they won't be much good if they don't work and they don't look good.

If Duane Wiebe, and Ted Blackburn, and whoever owns Sunny Hill have to charge between $300 and $500 for their bottom metal then there has got to be something that is really different if this guy is going to sell it for under $100. What could it be?

There's a big fricking difference between one piece Mauser bottom metal and that used on a 700.

I for one am happy to have another source to use on 700's.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Does that mean we need to order the one we can't get from you know who?
Butch

No, it means that no matter how inexpensive they are they won't be much good if they don't work and they don't look good.

If Duane Wiebe, and Ted Blackburn, and whoever owns Sunny Hill have to charge between $300 and $500 for their bottom metal then there has got to be something that is really different if this guy is going to sell it for under $100. What could it be?

If you knew Dave Kiff you would not have to ask this question. It is about equipment and the knowledge to utilize it to its maximum potential.

The PT&G Oberndorf style bottom metal, IMO looks pretty crude.
For a cheaper alternative to Sunny Hill or Blackburn I would go with Williams. I actually think Williams is a better bottom metal than Sunny Hill by virtue of its design and a much better value than Blackburn as they are pretty crude finish wise.

Pocket plates / Rigby style plates that would allow +1 would be great. Getting a new magazine box isn't that big of a deal. Replacing the stock to use the existing drop designs is a big deal.

I would love to see Remington and Winchester bottom metal with a more Sako like shape to them. The one size oval, from and back looks to utility based. One thing he has going for him, You know it will be done right.

I'm sure PTG has a decent CAD/CAM Program and someone that knows how to use it. The other trick is having a digitizing arm or a CMM and I'd bet they have one or the other.
that right there cuts the design time in half or less. The reason the others are charging so much for bottom metal is that they are missing two things

1. How shall I say this. The correct machine for the job. High production numbers require multiple fixtures and a pallet changer.

2. A larger production of other parts to subsidize the bottom metal. Which is most likely the key to the deal.

If you are making money on other parts you can afford to loose a little on some to get your foot in the door.
And maybe they bought Blackburns plans

quote:

How shall I say this. The correct machine for the job. High production numbers require multiple fixtures and a pallet changer.

Not so. One decent, indexing Tombstone could easily handle at least 16 units. If you have a lights out operation there is relaitively little man hours (40%?) and that is set up, cutting rough stock and zeroing.

Well Earl You're right, Either way you need a way to do a lot more then one at a time. and keep the setups to a minimum. A tombstone would work just as well as a pallet changer.

Mr. Kiff has also stated that he roughs some parts of these out of plate stock with a waterjet machine.
Having worked extensively with waterjet I can tell you they can cut a significant amount of mill time with a good waterjet.

Around here (Cincinnati area) guys buy a waterjet and that is there business. There is so much work for the service they can pretty much charge what they want.
I would like to see more of these bottom metal units from the side.

WE finished our program for the mauser bottom metal today. After we finish all the Winchester parts we will start on the mauser detachable mag aluminum parts and then steel and aluminum trigger gaurds and floor plates. Prices will start at 95 bucks and up. I will tell you this. If you try our bottom metal you will like it. I have been selling at least 10 to 15 units a day. Folks ask me every day how we can make it at those prices, Well its easy, we work hard, we work smart and we only charge time and material. It has a money back guarantee and I have not seen any come back. My personal favorite is the remington tacticle steel It is nice looking stuff. We are finishing a large addition to our shop and it will be dedicated to bottom metal,Three position safties and bolts We will be adding six new machines all state of the art CNC machines. The very front of our shop is our cutting tool area . chamber reamers are my life . My crew and I work hard from 6 am to 5 pm at tring to make the best chamber reamers, form tools and bore reamers we can. I let the boys in the machine shop take care of the machine parts . Kathleen, Jeff and ashley ride heard on the machine parts. Call and let us know what you may need Thanks Dave Kiff

reamer/Dave -

Would there be any interest on your part of producing a M-1917 Enfield sporterized bottom metal unit with an Orbendorf release button in the trigger bow?

There quite a few of "us" Enfield freaks out here.

Dave-

One other question. Does/will your Model 70 steel trigger guard units have the Orbendorf release buttons in the trigger guard bow? The information above does not specifiy.

Thanks in advance.

We will be offering the standard latch and the orbendorf type on all our bottom metal. As for the safties I have a large order for the remington bolts going thru first and then many others to follow. The Enfield metal is posible I have plans to stock most all types . The machine shop forman told me today that we will be finished with long and short Winchester steel wednesday and hope to ship all out by friday. Let me know what you need and I will try and get a Solid Works program for it or better yet a sample will help greatly.Thanks Dave

How about for a 91 Argentine
Kidding
But I'm in the market for a 98

http://www.pacifictoolandgauge...bottommetalviews.htm

For those of you who have been waiting to see our Bottom Metal, I have posted a couple different pictures. More to come.....

Thank you,
Ashley Kiff
Pacific Tool & Gauge
ashley@pacifictoolandgauge.com

FINALLY!!! For all of you who have been patiently waiting the Winchester Long & Short Action Trigger Guards are finally starting to ship out today. All reserved orders should be out by Monday.
Get your orders in....They are selling fast.
Thank you all for the large amount of reserved orders.
I thoroughly enjoy reading the feed back...Keep it coming.
WOULD YOU LIKE US TO START MAKING THE MAUSER 98 BOTTOM METAL NOW? ALUMINUM OR STEEL?


Thank you
Ashley Kiff
Pacific Tool & Gauge
ashley@pacifictoolandgauge.com
(541) 826-5808

quote:

Originally posted by Ashley Kiff:
WOULD YOU LIKE US TO START MAKING THE MAUSER 98 BOTTOM METAL NOW? ALUMINUM OR STEEL?


Thank you
Ashley Kiff
Pacific Tool & Gauge
ashley@pacifictoolandgauge.com
(541) 826-5808

Yes please. I'd prefer steel.

Some Q's for you on the Mauser 98 units:

- Do you plan on offering different sizes for the various groups of cartridges?

- Will there be any drop-box configurations offered?

- Will these feature the Oberndorf-type styling?

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Ashley Kiff:
WOULD YOU LIKE US TO START MAKING THE MAUSER 98 BOTTOM METAL NOW? ALUMINUM OR STEEL?


Thank you

I really look forward to seeing your product in steel. The fact that you would ask "aluminum or steel" frankly worries me a bit.

While the tactical guys like all the space age stuff, the mauser crowd is much more conservative.

I think the market for aluminum Mauser bottom metal will be limited at best. It needs to be a blueable steel.
Butch

I will make steel. The aluminum I will have to make . I have 50 sold to a customer. Also I have been asked about Winchester bolts. Do you think there is a market for custom bolts for Winchesters. Thanks Dave

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Ashley Kiff:
WOULD YOU LIKE US TO START MAKING THE MAUSER 98 BOTTOM METAL NOW? ALUMINUM OR STEEL?


Thank you

I really look forward to seeing your product in steel. The fact that you would ask "aluminum or steel" frankly worries me a bit.

While the tactical guys like all the space age stuff, the mauser crowd is much more conservative.

It was nice to ask rather to assume. Good business in my book.

Dave/Ashley,

Another big vote for starting the Mauser bottom metal in steel!! Like the others, I concur that demand for Mauser stuff in Aluminum will be low.

Will this have an integral mag box, or is this where you are thinking of using a detachable Wyatt box?

I would also support pre-64 Model 70 bottom metal. Wasn't sure from the thread if this was anticipated or not.

A pre-64 assy in aluminum with an Oberndorf release would be a really cool upgrade for the factory stuff IMHO. I would pre-order one.

quote:

Originally posted by Blackbart2:
Dave/Ashley,

Another big vote for starting the Mauser bottom metal in steel!! Like the others, I concur that demand for Mauser stuff in Aluminum will be low.

Will this have an integral mag box, or is this where you are thinking of using a detachable Wyatt box?

I would also support pre-64 Model 70 bottom metal. Wasn't sure from the thread if this was anticipated or not.

A pre-64 assy in aluminum with an Oberndorf release would be a really cool upgrade for the factory stuff IMHO. I would pre-order one.

Depending on the price you might be surprised at the demand for aluminum Mauser bottom metal. At the price most "good" aftermarket Mauser bottom metal sells for the buyer's overwhelmingly want Steel for their "classic" build.

However, don't forget that there are still a bunch of do-it yerselfers who want to ditch the "heavy" bottom metal so they can build a light weight sporter. At the right price, I bet the Aluminum would sell. Not that I'd use it.

Why are all the Aluminum units so much less than steel? Material, labor, "mass production"?

Material cost, machine time, and tool life to start.
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
Why are all the Aluminum units so much less than steel?

Because they're worth it.

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
Why are all the Aluminum units so much less than steel?

Because they're worth it.

If you really want to make the world a better place, make a good ,simple weld on bolt handle to replace the gazillions of cheap rimfire bolt handles that are in existance![/QUOTE]

What is the status of the 98 Mauser bottom metal? Are you doing Enfield? Are these two piece...ie separate box and guard or one piece? Any pictures of the Mauser. Thanks, Ron