I know that mauser used to manufacture a bolt peep sight. The school, where I teach, has a machine shop that can 'make things' for projects. I wonder if anyone has the diagram, or one of these that can be used for a pattern. If interested in one I can see if they can make them for us. Depending on complicity it wouldn't cost to much. Perobaly material, $20 and a couple of $6 pizzas. Let me know. capt david

Captdavid,
If you do make some peep sights I would like one.
Thanks.

I will take a few as well and will gladly buy the pizza.
I actually talked with a CNC class about a project like this to put a bolt peep back on my Haenel but I needed an existing sight that would probably not survive the "dismantlin' " that would be necessary to complete the project. I couldn't justify buying one for $200 plus to see it wrecked in hopes of having a copy made.
Frank

I wish you luck.

The good reporductions cost $300+ for a good reason. THey are not easy items to make correctly and are priced accrodingly. Plus the market for them is nil for all practical purposes

I think these sights are about $400 from Prechtl:

My question about this type peep sight is how can it possibly return to the same zero each time the gun is cocked. Just take hold of any 98 cocking peice & you can wiggle it & twist it left & right ( not once it is cocked though ). It might be ok for shooting under 50 yards at big targets. Which in all probability is all it was originally intended for in the first place I would like to see some actual range data on this. What say ye?

I have one on a new 375 and it's more repeatable than you would think. Generally, the bolt goes to battery the same way each time unless it is moved afterward. Bumping it is quite easy to do under hunting conditions so I am developing a semi-concious habit of "thumbing" it to the hard right as I raise the gun to fire.

D Humbarger, I used to have the same concern, but I tried a bolt peep on a 30-06 for a while and now I agree with tiggertate. From sitting at 100m on an improvised range, I shot 3 MOA groups with it pretty regularly. That was about standard for me with any peep sight on that rifle because I grew up on peep sights but had not been shooting them much at that time. With practice I would have felt comfortable zeroing for 175-200 yards, but I probably would not have taken shots much past than that.


Okie John

Thanks guys. Thats really good to hear. They sure do look nice.

quote:

My question about this type peep sight is how can it possibly return to the same zero each time the gun is cocked

I recall that better quality guns fitted with a striker mounted aperture had a <-shaped cut in the striker and a corresponding <-shaped sear, resulting in a << arrangement ensuring a consistent zero. It was probably a spendy little option even then...

How about an aperture that mounts on the bolt shroud instead? It would serve to move the sight a little farther from the eye (if for no other reason as not to pluck it out when shooting uphill as happened in one notorius case). If a fella was willing to take his windage adjustment at the front sight the rear seat need only be an aperture at the top of a threaded rod, no?

The modern answer is the ghost peep on the rear bridge like Ashley's or a pop-up variant like the CZ or the Brockman's. The only real reason for a cocking-piece aperature is nostalgia.

A poster here, z1r, is thinking about making a batch. Check-out his post on MFRC.

The original bolt peeps were used in conjunction with the rear leaf on the barrel. The aperature simply allows you to see the barrel sights more clearly, it does not need to be zeroed perfectly for each shot. This was especially useful for long shots, and the peep could be lowered or folded for near shots with just the barrel sights.

If you want to use only an aperature as a rear sight, then you definitely need one that is mounted to the receiver, such as the Lyman 35.

Bolt mounted peep sight - Rigby pattern / style

zlr - I am interested in your bolt mounted peep sights.

I think windage should be provided by the peep sight, with a barrel band blade adjustable for elevation.

A simple, rugged, 'fiddle proof' peep sight would be really good on a medium or big bore DG rifle.

I think folks are expecting too much. I have not mounted my new acquisition yet, Thanks Okie John!!!! But, I do not intend on using it as a primary sight rather, as a backup to the scope. So, if it is minute of deer at 150 yds, which is as far as I'll attempt an open sight shot, then I am happy. If I were to use a peep as my primary sight then I agree that I would want a receiver mounted sight like my lyman 35 or something along the lines of the Lyman #48. I have one I made that is similar in function to the Ashley Express, or is it XS sight now, that works really well.

Funny thing is, that I hated peeps up until late last year when a nice older gent with a Garand showed me how to use them. Been hooked ever since.

As for using peeps with the barrel mounted sights, that may well be the case with the tang sights. But, most of the rifles I've seen with the cocking piece peep did not have barrel mounted rear sights. Maybe I haven't seen a large enough sampling though.

So.

I was--for better or worse--committed to rust bluing a project rifle (or two), and spent way too much time searching the net for examples of good bluing.

If you're an American interested in custom guns, it's sort of mandatory that you start at Griffin and Howe.

There I found what was described as a "Tucker-Burgess Small Ring Mauser."

I had no idea who Tom Burgess was, but... Sheesh, honey, I want to be able to make steel as dark and deep as that. The best bluing job I had ever seen.

I just pulled the images up again today. Right now.

Still is.

Personally, I'm pretty pleased with a Lyman aperture sight. They fall happily into a proud tradition. And work.

But the Tucker-Burgess Small Ring Mauser has a cocking piece mounted aperture, and I'll defer to those who have been doing this for decades.

Somebody--was it Thomas Burgess?--made the decision to mount the peep on this Mauser, and I'd be interested to hear whether it was primarily an aesthetic decision, or a practical one.

Which, of course, beggars the larger question: What is the appropriate balance of pragmatism and aesthetics (with, certainly, a nod to history) in the contemporary custom gun?

flaco

Speaking of pre-1940 rifles only, the vast majority that have a cocking piece sight do not have a barrel sight, some are found with barrel sights but not often. Many gunmakers who used these sights inserted a pin(s) or screws in the bottom of the bolt shroud and ground them to size so when the bolt was closed they were locked into battery. Even without the pins or screws I have found them to return to the same place between shots. One thing I learned early on was when you make an adjustment, cycle the bolt before shooting for it to return to the normal position. The bottom Rigby type sight came from the Niedner shop, Malden , Mass. circa 1917.

Those are beautiful, Micheal. Interesting that 3 of 3 are on Springfields. My Atkinson & Marquart on a '98 Mauser does not have a barrel sight, either. The cocking-piece sight appears to be a hand-made one-of-a-kind that fits over the cocking piece rather than dove-tail into it.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Those are beautiful, Micheal. Interesting that 3 of 3 are on Springfields. My Atkinson & Marquart on a '98 Mauser does not have a barrel sight, either. The cocking-piece sight appears to be a hand-made one-of-a-kind that fits over the cocking piece rather than dove-tail into it.

There is a reason for them being on a Springfield. Years ago when I started putting together my reference library of pre-1940 custom rifles I could buy three 1903’s for one custom rifle built on a commercial Mauser cost or five for one on a Magnum Mauser cost.

Can you post or send me a picture of the A&M cocking-piece sight?

Here's one from my parts bin, on a Springfield firing pin assembly like Michael's:

Here's quicky photo. I am no expert on these but I bought this rifle largely because of this sight. I really am not sure of its origins and shouldn't say it's a one of a kind. I've just not seen another like it.

That's a mighty nice "parts bin", fla3006!

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Here's quicky photo. I am no expert on these but I bought this rifle largely because of this sight. I really am not sure of its origins and shouldn't say it's a one of a kind. I've just not seen another like it.

It looks English (Parker-Hale), I ask a friend who might know to look at it.

There is a guy in the TriCities in WA that has made them. I do not know if he is selling them. When senor Bill Soverns returns from his Mexican labors he can fill us in.

Chic, you're thinking of Tom Delucchi in Richland, 509-946-7855. His sights are a copy of the Holland & Holland, and, if I remember, run $300-$350, but are quality sights. ~Arctic~

Tiggertate's sight is a Parker Hale.

quote:

Originally posted by captdavid:
I know that mauser used to manufacture a bolt peep sight. The school, where I teach, has a machine shop that can 'make things' for projects. I wonder if anyone has the diagram, or one of these that can be used for a pattern. If interested in one I can see if they can make them for us. Depending on complicity it wouldn't cost to much. Perobaly material, $20 and a couple of $6 pizzas. Let me know. capt david

Count me in on one of the peep sights!

Capt David,

I'm here to collect on your pizzas, a few years ago a customer brought in a fine old english bolt gun and it had a peep sight on the cocking piece. It was very well done. Being the kind of guy I am, I made drawings. Capt David, do you have a CAD system so I can transfer the files? Which file format do you need? I could turn each drawing into a JPEG and send them that way.

Make my pizzas meat lover specials with extra cheese.

Thanks for the info.

Mark, I would appreciate a copy of the cad files. I can open iges, dwg, dxf, prt, stp and most others with pro-e. You can e-mail them to either rbosse@tridentemail.com or m1carbine@hotmail.com

Thanks
Ray

The secret to the bolt peep is a fitted cocking piece that returns to exact position each time..I sold 3 of them on AR last year...I will look and see if I have another..but I think I sold them all..I had 6 at one time..

Flaco,

any chance you could send me those picks of the tucker-burgess rifle? Or post them? I have seen pics of a few different rifles that he worked on but never a pic where he did the bluing too.

Mark,

Not that I could ever manufacture them, but for reference and something to study I would like some jpg's of the site too if you don't mind. I'd be willing to trade you a pizza for them.

Red

Here's the Tucker-Burgess Small Ring Mauser off of the Griffin and Howe site:



To my eye, the best bluing job I've ever seen.

flaco

Need I add... On a stunning example of the gunsmith's art?

It seems that I have a few takers on CAD drawings for this part. Do me a favor, send me an email and tell me what format you need and the address as to where it needs to be sent. My email address is octbarrel@aol.com

If you want some JPEG's do that as well. Maybe I can save myself some time.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Thanks for the info.

FYI, I looked up both the Lyman and the Parker Hale, in 1939 the Lyman was $3 the PH $15. Must be the reason I see so few. Thanks for sharing.

The PH is the classiest of the cocking piece sights, it has click adjustments for windage and elevation. Originally made for 98s and Mannlicher-Schoenaurs.

Mauser still makes rifles with the cocking piece sight and rear barrel leaves. Here is an example. Most of the rifles found with just a cocking piece sight are custom models by individual gunmakers.

I have held the 6.5mm at Griffin & Howe. The craftmanship is breathtaking.

Sorry about the image size, but here are a couple of photos of the sight made by the guy Chic referred to. If you are seriously interested in one of his sight drop me a line and I will put you on to him. He has asked me not to post his name or notification information on the web because he doesn't want to be inundated with information requests about his sight. I can understand his position because he does this on a part time basis and doesn't want to be overwhelmed with orders.

I know of two different people who has drawings of two different bolt peeps for sale.

I find it ironic, about 5 years ago I was looking into making some of these peeps and the market was dead. Now would most likely sell out an batch of 50 peeps in a short peroid of time.

Scroll Cutter, yes he is an privite person who wishes to keep to himself, he does excellent work in both wood and metal.

Jim Wisner
Custom Metalsmith

Jim,

Don't fret, I think everyone is interested at the couple of pizzas price not the $300 or better that they should sell for.