Hey all, am curious about cocking piece peeps, have been looking at them today and have a few questions:

1. the Lyman 1a, how good a sight is that in reality for a rifle, say a big bore, stocked primarily for open sight use? why does it fold? if that is for use with a scope, how much danger is there of that bad boy giving you a shiner under recoil?

2. How does it stack up against the Rigby or the H&H? by the way, looking at another thread here the H&H style, with a knob on the side versus the back, looked awesome.

I think I have a lead on a 1a, am wondering if it would be appropriate for my future plan of a mauser in the brit style.

3. last question, were the cocking piece peeps used by themselves as a rear sight or in conjunction with the folding rear sights?

Red

1A folds to prevent breakage when transporting because the elevation doesn't have a quick-change return-to-zero feature like most of the Brit sights. The SOP for rifles with bbl-mounted open sights is to zero the open sight at closer range and the folding peep at longer range.

The 1A, when folded down, CAN be a danger if the butt slips down off the shooter's shoulder at the moment of firing; this actually happened to a woman on a hunt back in the early part of the 20th century, putting out her eye and causing lots of publicity at the time.(pilot error IMO)

IMO the Lyman would be appropriate for any US-made or US-styled rifle but I personally would prefer a Brit-style sight for a Brit-styled rifle. I've used the H&H sight and it's a fine one, I'm sure that the Rigby style is just as good.

Please remember that ANY of these cocking-piece peeps need some method of centering the cocking piece precisely, every time, otherwise the rifle's zero will vary with each cycle of the bolt. I like 'em, but efficient use requires some adaptation.
Regards, Joe

Additional considerations: the Lyman made specifically for a cocking piece is fairly uncommon and the rifle's cocking piece itself (already cut for the sight) should be acquired at the same time if possible, with everything already assembled as a unit. I've bench-fit a different Lyman to a Mauser by cutting the various dovetails, see pic, but finding a different model Lyman that's short enough is also problematic. I was lucky enough to find a 2A with a short staff and a base with enough meat to form a small dovetail. You will please note that I've used a long cocking piece, most Mausers had a shorter cocking piece and so they frequently require a spacer for clearance.

The Lymans made for a cocking piece, when found, are usually a little cheaper($200-$300) than the H&H or Rigby styles($400+). For a bolt rifle I prefer the H&H or Rigby, especially for a Brit-styled rifle, but I hafta settle for what I can afford(G).
Regards, Joe

thanks very much. I know guys reproduce the rigby, what about the h&h? as far as I know this one is in the box and made for cocking piece.

thanks also for answering the bit about if they were in use along with the regular open sight. I thought I'd read that somewhere too

I believe that Wisner is considering the H&H sight.

Actuall several people were blinded, in addition to the woman mentioned. She was the wife of a famous gunwriter.
Any heavy recoil rifle, particularly when
shooting up hill or prone, can do it.
Good luck!

I have the Rigby style on my 7x57 and a bridge mounted unit on my 404. Took a bit to get them regulated but really like them for hunting. With the 7x57 - Rigby peep I have taken goat sized animals out to 185yds on the move so they certainly are effective.


Von Gruff.

Hawkins,

Rigby and Holland's cocking piece sights don't fold back like the Lyman's. I just can't see those peeps getting to the eye. They add a half inch, at most, to the cocking piece.

quote:

Originally posted by Scrollcutter:
Hawkins,

Rigby and Holland's cocking piece sights don't fold back like the Lyman's. I just can't see those peeps getting to the eye. They add a half inch, at most, to the cocking piece.

What you say sounds reasonable, but they also stick up above the level of the cocking piece and are already lined up with your eye.

The Lyman is the only one that endangers the eye, at all. And even the Lyman is only a danger when folded down and the rifle slips down off the shooter's shoulder during recoil. IIRC the doctor's wife who lost her eye was shooting a Savage 99 in 250-3000, uphill at a steep angle, with the peep folded down. The early Savage 99 has lots of drop and an angled butt that IMO is angled too much, and my supposition is that the Savage's slick steel buttplate and poor plate angle combined to cause the accident. JMOFWIW, it was a long time ago and I may not have the details right.
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by hawkins:
Actuall several people were blinded, in addition to the woman mentioned. She was the wife of a famous gunwriter. Any heavy recoil rifle, particularly when shooting up hill or prone, can do it. Good luck!

Could you please elaborate on who the several people were that were blinded? Can you quote a source that I might look up?

I been shooting several rifles with cocking piece sights for many years and would like to do an article or classic sights found on pre-war custom rifles.
Thanks,

The lady that lost her eye was the wife of the
gunwriter Paul Curtis. That rifle was "A Savage
lever action with a tang sight".
I have no specifics on other incidents only
repeating cautions I have read over the years.
Your book project sounds interesting.
Good luck!

Here is my 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer with the Lyman peep sight.

I have shot fallow deer with it & I can group 5 shots in less than 3" at 100 meters.

Michael you know what I'd love to see in a book like that (book, is there enough info there for a book? what about a series of articles? hmmm....you're the author, just curious)?

I'd like to see a write up of them, some info on hunting with them, AND a comparison to modern day sight offerings!!! I love the looks of a lot of these sights, at the same time, these fiber optics are so cool. I only have a front fiber on one rifle, and haven't played much with it yet, but really want to find a way to get NECG's fiber optic rear onto a rifle (I wish it could be put on an adjustable base of some sort) and get that in the field.

I wonder how these stack up with the modern ghost ring offerings and so forth. I'm guessing good. which of course means, viable, and desireable, and the more that want something, the more offerings, lower cost etc. etc.

most importantly though, you need field testing, and you are just one guy, I'll make you a deal, you send me one of your really cool classic 03's and I'll take it hunting. Hell, I'll even pay for a pig hunt (only thing I could afford) to take it on

Red

sights for sore eyes:














(M. Petrov photo above)




1A's were also made that were solderable to the cocking piece, with no dovetail.

Marbles sells a tang sight that looks to me a candidate for modifying into a cocking piece sight.

Rob Zimmerman AKA Rusty Marlin makes a bang-up Rigby, as I recall.

Now there's a photo that warms the heart.

...another poor bastard mentions D**n, and is sucked down the memory hole.

Can anyone tell me what style this one would be considered? Bought it not long ago but will never use so was planning to get rid of it.

its of the Rigby style... poorly executed (IMNSHO) but of that style.

Rusty - Agree with your assessment. Always wanted one, but then when you get one...