I am looking for a mauser or other rifle action that will be good for a project. I enjoy tinkering and would like to do some gunsmithing....relatively cheap yet would like it to be a shooter.



Would like to find an action, strip it of the barrel, get an after-market barrel, stock, trigger, etc. Calibers I have in mind are 17Ackley Bee, or another 17 cal, or 6.5-284, 6.5-06, or ??? Rechambering is no problem. If all goes well, I will get a shilen barrel after the tinkering.



As far as stocks, I would like a near drop-in where I could do some minor work and glass bed it.



Oh yeah...just like everyone else, I want the action at a reasonable price.



Thanks,

Kyle

Relatively cheap and an action at a reasonable price...

For starters, I would do it like this,



Action- VZ 24

Stock- Boyd's VIP

Trigger- Timney



Your best bet for chambering (low cost) would be a cartridge with a .473" rim diameter that will feed reliably in a M98 Mauser action, eliminating feed rail modifications.



Have fun.

Completely agree with Craigster.
Shilen barrel
VZ24 action is a good choice but if you come across another 98 at a reasonable price and don't know what it is, feel free to post on this board
Timney trigger

About caliber, I too would stick with a .473 case head.
17 Ackley Bee I believe is a little too small for a big 98 based rifle, although it is really cool in a Contender
If you are looking for something for deer and small game like that I would go with a 7X57 Mauser.
It is the .473 case head and will do the same thing on deer as a 6.5-06 will do.

-Spencer

I will look at wildcats on the .473 case head. I have a 280AI in an Encore so the 7x57 does not interest me. Looking for something to tinker with this winter.

Where can I get a VZ24? What should I pay? Just want one I can strip, so mathing #'s and shpe of the bore are non factors.

Kyle

Yeah, what everyone else said already, the full length mauser action is super easy to find parts for, stocks are plentiful, and barrels are available everywhere.



Yugoslavian 48's and Turkish mausers are easy and cheap to get ahold of, but I have heard mixed reports on them (I have both, and they go bang just fine!) but I have heard lots of great things about the VZ-24 actions. I know they are being sold at the local Big-5 stores for about $150, and they are in good shape too.



Stick a trigger on it, tweak the bolt over, and stick a .17-06 barrel on it and you'll be blasting away in no time!



edit: Just curious if anyone has ever seen barrels available with iron sights installed? I really wich I could find something like that in .35 whelen with a mil-contour



79

Like Shop Cart mentioned, any good 98 action will work just fine. As we speak, I'm working on a 98 Argentine that will probably wind up being a 257 Roberts or the same in Ackley Improved. VZ 24's are still pretty easy find, check out your local gunshops or the online auctions. I'm guessing (?) that you ought to be able to find a complete VZ 24 for a 100 bucks or so.

Thanks guys. I will be looking for the VZ24. Will post a wanted ad in classifieds.

Was thinking turkish but after doing a search, some of the complaints scared me off. Would rather spend a little more and if I have problems, they can be blamed on me instead of the action.

Kyle

LOL...that 17-06 would be a screamer!!!!!

if you want a 17cal.. assuming 222 or 223 case, you have 2 real choices, for a good varmit/target...

remington 660/600/788
or shilen DGA

for any 473 (except the br's) a vz24 is your best bet, as it's "all mauser" and all mauser parts can/will fit

i've got a dga that i am thinking about selling

jeffe

Jeff,

Tell me about the DGA. I am not familiar with it at all.

Pics? Price? Looking for anything in trade?

Kyle

I guess I'm not of the old school, I would not consider a Mauser action in this day and age. Why put up with the slow lock time, the claw extractor, and it can't very readily be accuracy trued.

Any Remington can be made quite accurate, parts are all over the place, the best triggers in the world are available for it, stocks are easy to get, etc.

Keep an eye out at gun shows, call Bob White at Shooters Corner, or go to Wally World and buy an ADL and strip it.

Or, like the Shilen DGA, a custom action is always better. Actions like Hart, CPS, Witchita, are available on the used market at reasonable prices, and will serve better that ANY factory action.

Wayne, if you'll go back and read the original post again, He wants to try his hand at gunsmithing. Most would choose to use an inexpensive action to learn on. The other actions would be a better choice if the learning curve weren't involved.



If I was in his shoes, I'd definatly use the cheapest action I could find. Mainly because if it was me, I'd end up with a very nice 5lb paper weight



Terry

When you really get down to the nut-cuttin', Mausers are cheap to buy alright, but they get expensive in a hurry once the work begins unless you'll be satisfied with sort of a half-assed complete rifle. Beware of reverse-ecomony. The concept of 'cheap' in and of itself in this case can be sort of like jumping off a bridge in order to retrieve a $1 bill that flew out of you pocket.

Mauser 98s were designed with magazine boxes and followers that were mathematically-calculated and then precisely machined to achieve the correct stack angle with a specific cartridge. No, you can't turn a 7.65 Argentine box or 8mm Mauser box into a .338 and end up with a properly feeding rifle.

Also, lug setback is not at all uncommon with Mausers, and unless they are properly surface-hardened, your project is at risk internally. Plus, you'll need a new bolt handle, a new safety that works with a scope, a new aftermarket trigger, etc., etc., etc..........

The best inexpensive solution for a solid rifle that'll be a shooter is to find an older used Remington 700 or push-feed Model 70 and strip it for the action. These actions form an ideal basis for an accurate rifle, plus the steels are excellent and properly heat-treated, they are fundamentally complete, and they are trouble-free.

You can find a used M700 or M70 for under $400 net, then you can sell the stock and barrel and keep the action. You can be into that action for $300 or maybe even less. The cost difference between that and a $100 Mauser is an astounding bargain considering what it'll cost to get the Mauser into rudmentary shape, and internally you'll have a much sounder rifle, and a better-looking one as well.

As far as I'm concerned, good Mausers are best reserved for higher-end rifles.........

AD

Wayne,



I am looking for a cheap way of doing some tinkiering. I am aware it will not be the prettiest or quickest but I need to do it relatively cheap.....I am a teacher for goodness sakes!!! LOL!!! As far as lock time goes, I am an Encore shooter, so I am not accustomed to second shots.



I will do the Gunshow thing and look for beat up Rem actions but most people know what they are worth.



Is accuracy from a mauser action that bad???



Kyle



Oh and on the DGA thing....I looked up what they are worth...did I mention I am a teacher???

Mauser actions can be made very accurate. Lug set can happen, but it's not common. Converting a milsurp M98 into a sporter can be very expensive or very cheap. just depends on your personal tastes.

Terry

Kyle,
sent you a PM on the DGA...

bet you'll find my price is MUCH lower than book/net.

jeffe

To the contrary, lug set is quite common. In any event, what happens if you decide to take a risk on a Mauser with the optomistic view that somehow it's all going to work out OK, then after 200 rounds find that, yes indeed, you now have a headspace problem due to lug setback because the action you bet your marbles on was really too soft? Are you willing to bet on it?



Personally, I don't believe in potluck.



I know of guys who've taken Mausers to undertrained, idiot gunsmiths who assured them, without really knowing, that the they selected would be absolutely fine, only to have it develop problems later on. In a couple of cases, said idiots would run a file over a portion of the action, pronounce it "plenty hard enough", only to later find that, yes Boss, the action was really too soft after all. Just brilliant!



In any event, Mausers just aren't an untrained beginner's type action.



AD

Not for my money.

What's the worst thing that's going to happen to you if you invest in an aftermarket box and follower that really and truly is of the proper dimensions -- say, one from Ted Blackburn? It'll cost more money, but to me it's fundamentally the right, textbook way to get the job done, and the whole rework of the action's going to cost a lot anyway.

AD

I got a dozen VZ24s for project when they were $76 out the door in 2002.

They are very nice.
I just pulled the barrel, drilled, and tapped a VZ24 refurb and a 24/47 [Yugo] this week. The Yugo has more and deeper tool marks than the VZ24. But the Yugo has a perfect military bore, something very rare in a VZ24.
The Yugo types are also shorter, making 30-06 length modifications probematice.

Still that is fly poop in the pepper, as any 98 Mauser will make a great project.

Sorry, did not mean to stir up a hornets nest.

Clark...have any of tthe VZ24 you want to sell?

I have done a little looking but not much.

Kyle

Allen,
While you are right in a way you are also wrong. Keep in mind that many of the rifles which are built are built "just for the fun of it". To the owners of these rifles, it does not matter if they are not exactly right. It only matters that they function at the expected level.
I have put together a truckload of mauser based rifles for guys who simply wanted to try a certain caliber or test some pet concept. While the resulting rifle might not have been anything I would have wanted to show off, it was exactly what the customer wanted and he had fun fooling with it.
You have to keep in mind as well that the extra cost of a Blackburn magazine and guard is an expence which may well be beyond the means of some shooting enthusiasts. So instead of that guard the shooter may wish to spend that money on a whole bunch of powder or bullets or a scope. I have never had any trouble in getting a magnum cartridge to work very well through a Mauser. I've even had pretty good success doing remedial work to other's conversions which did not work out.
On lug setback. You bet. It happens. My favorite Mauser is the Oberndorf 1935 as made for Brazil. These are hard and I've never seen any setback in one of these. The 1908 DWMs were very nicely made and I used quite a few but they will set back if used with loads which are too heavy especially if built in a magnum caliber.
Interestingly, one of the worst cases of lug setback in mauser I ever saw was in a commercial FN action which was barreled in 308 Winchester! The absolute worst was a Ferlach rifle in .375H&H. This one featured a soldered on claw mount base on the front and there is possibilty the reciever ring was partially annealed in the process. I replace the action on this rifle with a 1935 and it worked out fine.
It is not necessary that every rifle be a work of art. If it shoots well and functions to the satisfaction of the owner/builder/ experimenter, it is a success. Regards, Bill.

VZ-24 or a 1909 Argintine would be fine...or pick up a nice old FN by Sears, or whoever...

OK Bill, Lug set back does happen, but how common is it? My smith say's he's done over 300 and has gotten exactly 3 back for that problem and 2 of the 3 were loaded with very high pressure rounds. I can only go by what I've been told, but it would seem to me if one used a sensible cartridge for said action and loaded it at sane pressures, they would be OK with one of the actions that have a good reputation (VZ-24 etc.) I only started hearing a lot about this problem when I came to this site and then much of it came from the same posters (absolutely no offense intended).



I'm could very well be wrong in my assumptions.



Terry

Allen,
You are right ...... it is not your money. He is doing what work he can for himself and the learning experience. The final product does not have to come up to every one of YOUR expecatations.

I have already lost one VZ24 to an AR poster

http://www.gunsnstuffonline.com/
In search by keyword, type "VZ24"
Click on "go".
Scroll down to:


Mauser 98 VZ24 Action
Complete Mauser 98 large ring action includes bolt assembly (straight bolt handle), trigger assembly, mag well, floorplate, trigger guard, and receiver screws. Accept standard Mauser barrel with thread diameter of 1.1'' and 12 t.p.i. Condition is fair, with some pitting. FFL Required.
59.95


Click on "more details".

Chic, I think I've been very realistic, logical, and honest with everything I've had to say here. Look a little deeper and you'll see that I'm really trying to help this gentleman save money and end up with a better project that he can really handle on a do-it-yourself basis, and conclude his efforts with a rifle he'll be happier with over the long haul.

AD

I have a great deal of respect for Allen's opinion on anything to do with big game rifles; I have learned that his posts are invariably worth reading, especially if one is interested in custom rifles. I feel exactly the same way about both Chic and Bill Leeper, who is VERY highly regarded among serious rifle nuts here in B.C.

Overall, I am inclined to agree with Bill on this particular issue as I have seen Mauser rifles in use for years that were "home-made" and this was use under the harshest conditions of the B.C. bush. One guide I know in northern B.C, uses a .35WAI built on a military '98 and he has shot 51 Grizzlies during his many years in the bush off the Alaska Highway. He told me that this was the best rifle that he had ever owned as he had various problems with others, once when a Grizzly came after his horse.

I have carried a lot of different rifles in the bush, solo, for months on end and in places where if I were injured by a bear or whatever, I could not be air-evac'ed. I now have come to prefer a good Mauser over anything else for such work and intend to have Bill build me a 9.3x62 on a 1933 Oberndorf when I can afford it.. I wouldn't mind Allen's "Legend" in .375H&H or even his .416 Rem., but, the price involved is a lot of money for most people, especially for a rifle that will be left out in the rain, snow and hot sun for days on end.

Allen, I think that most of us realize that your posts are honestly intended to advise and assist other shooters and value your comments, I certainly do.

Terry,
The setback people talk about is common enough that it isn't surprising to see it. You are right though in your assumption that a decent action loaded at sane levels will likely give no problem. Even in the 1908s I mentioned, setback occurred only in those cases where the owner liked to push the envelope pressurewise. It is fair to say that i have seen many more which have not setback than have. Regards, Bill.