quote:

I’ve also learned over the years that eyeballs come one pair to a customer...and I never shoot without protective eyewear now.

Ears qualify there also, too many years in artillary and old teletype rooms have taken there toll on mine. I was always a four eyes guy so shooting for me has alsways included glasses.

I make my boys wear both ear and eye protection.

Matt, I thought from your first post the raceways were to be EDM. Butch

quote:

Originally posted by triggerguard1:
That part's usefulness as a "gas block" is far less than it's other features...First and foremost; they can use the same bolt stop for all calibers within a particular action length by simply modifying which gas block they throw in there.
The other advantage is the fact that when cycling the bolt, the locking lugs are not slamming against the small bolt release and ejector....Instead, they're hitting a gas block, which is dispersing the force over the entire lug on that side, decreasing the chances of damaging the lug.

If you see what happens to a "Classic" Model 70 when she's given the "blue pill"....The extractor goes for a wild ride, as well as the spring collar and gas block. This gas block will do little to nothing for saving an eye.

The best solution is a gas flange for both sides of the receiver on the bolt shroud. After that; venting the gases into the mag box with larger holes than Winchester has used. Two venting holes on either side of the front receiver ring that ride approximately .080" above boreline....as in above stockline.

That's the best solution, which doesn't depart much from the original concept that Paul Mauser had over a 100 years ago.....

Imagine that ehh

Nothing truer than this. Sadly, USRA insists on keeping their bolt stop where the flanged shroud should go, and that stops them incorporating this long overdue improvement.

In many ways, the M70 was built to contain gas, but does not successfully manage to do so. In particular the gas running down the left raceway is headed straight for the shooter.

The M70/Mauser clone, the MRC M1999 takes a more radical approach to handling gases. It has 2 vent holes in the action (vs 1 for the M70), it has 2 massive ports venting gas into the magazine (vs. 2 puny ports for the M70), and a flanged shroud, which will deflect whatever gas happens to pass the lug raceway. From a safety point of view, this is a better design than the M70.

- mike

For my rebarreled and restocked, hard use pre-64 (no collector value), I am planning to do the following:

Tap and plug the primer vent holes in the bolt body, and redrill them to face the magazine.

Fit a Mauser 98 or Ruger 77 type bolt release to the left side of the reciever.

Weld up the bolt shroud with a healthy gas flange (mcuh bigger than the tiny one used on the new USRAC actions).

Weld up bolt root (like a pre-war) to cover right side raceway.

Use once fired brass in the field.

Doug

Some years back the American Rifleman had a drawing of a gas flange for the pre-64. J.K. Cloward installed it on an '06 for me .... but I still wear shooting glasses when I shoot the rifle.

Of course eye protection is the best way to go with any firearm, but its not always practical...

I shoot Mausers mostly so it's not a concern, but my M-70s are fine with me..I load them within their boundries or even a bit less...

I have had a couple of them spew gas and minute particles of brass in my face from a ruptured case, a .243 in each case and that seems to be prevelent in that caliber...both times at the range and with max handloads..therein lies the problem, maybe we should all back off a grain or two from the rifles max, they been telling us that for years, but hey sometimes!!

quote:

Originally posted by GrandView:

quote:

Originally posted by schromf:
If it hasn't been altered or bubba'd somebody is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Wrong tact. You are referring to alteration of the gun. That's not the problem.

The problem will be manifested by a failure in the ammo. The incidents of this.....without inclusion of reloading......are rare.

As alluded to before....if it does happen.....the way the pre-64 handles gas down the left bolt raceway may not be pleasant.

These discussions needn't become so polarized that accurate information isn't disseminated.

GV

FROM NOTES TAKEN IN FEBRURARY '05

The poor gas handeling of the pre-64 model 70 is grossly over stated. In a lengthly discussion of this very issue with Ed Lapour the various issues were discussed and common misconceptions were addressed.

1) gas traveling down the left race way. Not much different than the Mauser. The mauser has a thumb cut where most of the gas is eleminated before it gets to the gas flange on the bolt shroud. The hole in the front receiver bridge for gas escaping. In the Winchester the left bolt race also has a relief area analagous to the Mauser thumb cut where the bolt antibind lump travels through the the top cut out and vents to the top and to the right away from the shooters face. No gas flange on the Winchester to redirect the gas that has substantially deflected by the anti bind cut in the receiver and the gas releif vent on the front receiver ring. Solid left side wall versions of the 98 action are not as well protected other than the flange on the safety shroud.

2)gas escaping from pierced primer. again down the bolt through the left race way vented as before.

These are from my notes I made earlier this year. The only change He would make in a pre-64 would be to drill a hole or two to vent some gas into the magazine box area. No other changes would he recommend.
I don't know if this would help anyone. I have owned a huge number of model 70's in my life and shoot them regularly. I have had a pireced primer due to rebuilding a pre-64 firing pin which was too long. No devistation ro blindness. Hell, I didn't even notice it until I pulled the round out. The next shell did the same but without me behind the rifle. Still no flash and nasty event. I also have had a casehead separation on an 257 Roberst AI when some of the brass got thin. Again no major affair just a hard bolt lift. I guess if you think of all the things that could go wrong while loading and shooting firearms and are pessimistic then you would never pick up a gun. I, on the other hand have had no major issues in 35 years. If someone on the forum has actually had a devistating occurrance with a pre-64 model 70, I would like some real time discussion and some proof. There is a lot of " I knew this guy one time that did so and so and this is what happened". There is a wealth of knowledge and experience on this forum and somewhere there is someone with actual experience and not just passing on yarns.