Spoke to the people at Montana Rifleman today about their new action. According to them they are shipping a preproduction run as they are being finished and will start shipping production actions the second part of November. Has anyone seen one of the actions as supplied to the consumer? I was thinking of using one for my next rifle assuming it doesn't need too much "fixing".

DOC

I have an open order with them, but they have not asked for payment yet. I did get a letter recently (dated Sept 24) from GM Rod Rogers giving status and showing some photos of actions and bolts being matched up, and production unit C02-1010 -- a .375 H&H configured action.

The letter says that the November production run in the second half of November will fill all open orders.

jim dodd

Hello all,

I was recently advised by one of our customers about this web site. I can see there are a lot of questions about the M1999 Montana, and I'll be glad to entertain them here. The M1999 product plan calls for four sizes of action, all of them in both right and left hand. Todate, we have CAD files complete on left and right hand in the Long Action and in the Short Action. The PH (Professional Hunter - a super-magnum length) is currently in CAD. The mini is outlined only.

The most expensive and time-consuming step in producing an action via the lost wax method is getting the molds done and done right. I am happy to say we are finally there in the Long Action. Sturm Ruger started popping waxes last week at one every six seconds. There are a lot of steps between wax and action, and the pipeline looks to begin machining castings on the 20th of November, when I will be back there (NH) to help make sure nothing goes awry.

The M1999 name stems from when the design was conceptualized. And then we had to fund it. Which took two years. Yes, our price is good. And we are holding it as per the website. But the ONLY way to get that price through the lost wax method that Ruger employs, and believe me, you better be well-funded if you walk this road. On every part, we went high-dollar tooling to get a great piece price. We intend to be around a long time in order to amortize that tooling.

Feel free to drop an email or call us at the factory. I'll visit this forum every few days or so to answer questions.

Best regards
Rod Rogers
General Manager
Montana Rifle Company

Rod,

Welcome to the site, and I know there are a lot of lefties here who are interested in your LH M99.

jim dodd

I am a leftie and I am VERY interested in the Model 1999 action. I have your website bookmarked. When I get out of college and actually have a little money, I'll probably be building a .416 Rem off a Stainless 1999 action. Perhaps a 7mm Rem as well.

Hi Rod,

Welcome on board!

I am very interested in your PH super magnum action as I like those big bore calibers. A question about your magnum action. Did you guys intend to cast it to a near net shape? Are you going to do any finish cutting operation? Does yous PH have a third recoil lug? Why are Ruger casting your action? I suppose that they must have a seperate casting business. How finish would your actions be? What is the bolt diamter of the PH version? Any info will be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Ming,
Ruger does a lot of casting for other companies. They make golf club heads, firearm components and aeropspace parts. They are also working with some more exotic materials such as Ti.

I am very interested in these actions.
I have heard the very short action will accomodate .223? How far way will this be?
Does the standard short action mag box have enough room to comfortably accept .284 win cartridge with say 140 grainers?
Will a standard M70 stock fit these new actions?

Kevin,

Thanks for the info. I know Ruger's products are made of investment casting but I did not know Ruger would provide this service to other companies. Thanks.

Hello all,

Sorry about the late reply. I took a day last week for antelope hunting on the eastside. (of Montana).

FAR RIGHT: You picked two calibers that can be delivered in the current product. And our first stainless run is being poured (yesterday). We'll be there when you're ready.

MINGO: I'm not sure what you mean by "near net shape". The PH is my personal favorite as I also like big cartridges. The mag box is long enough (4.050in) to accept all but 9 of the worlds cartridges. (50BMG is one of the 9, sorry.) We finish machine all of the castings in all models.

For really big bangers, it is probably a good idea to install a recoil lug on the barrel, up aways in the forearm. The PH will have an extended receiver ring, and the recoil lug wider, deeper and moved forward. A lot of stock material between lug and front guard screw. The bolt diameter is planned for .800in. Think Rigby or Lapua. The PH is still in CAD and we can go anywhere we want. So keep the suggestions flowing.

We bead-blast and apply a light finish polish to all actions. They are supplied in the white unless ordered with a fitted barrel from our custom shop. Then we can add bluing to the order.

As said elsewhere, Ruger casts parts for every other firearms mfg's except S&W. Including the US Defense dept. Using Ruger is the ONLY way to deliver a finished product for under $500 retail.

TGWH: The .223 design is our MINI. It is next for CAD after the PH is finished. USRAC just muddied the water with the WSSM line of cartridges. Now what? Do we keep the .550bolt dia? Or figure the .223WSSM with its Jeffrey parent will take off like a house afire. Luckily, we do not have to make that decision today.

The Short Action, both RH and LF is completed in CAD. Gotta ship some Long Actions to start Ruger on the molds though. The SA has a magazine length of 3.10 internal, ALONG with an ejection port that can handle every Mauser cartridge except the 8mm. Yes, 7x57 too. For the .284 (and 6.5 Norma) order it with the 308 bolt rails but a magnum extractor. In my prototype tests, this combo will feed an empty .284 cases with the action held upside down.

Both the LA and the SA will fit in standard M70 stocks with minimal handwork. Our receiver ring extends beyond the recoil lug by .125, so you have to remove a little material here. Also, the knife edge of the rear tang is not castable, so ours is .090 thick. You have to remove a little material here too. That's it for the receiver and bolt. The rest of the footprint is identical to the M70. The one-piece floorplate will require some inletting also.

Thanks Rod for the info. The 4.000 in internal dimension magazine box sounds very good. It should be long enough to accommodate the 50-505 Gibbs nicely. I would like to see a bolt diameter of at least .800 in to accommodate the 577 T-REX with plenty of material left. Also please extend one of the bolt lugs all the way to the bolt face like the M-70. This way if the wall on the bolt face is removed completely, it still has the material left from one of the lugs. An extra set of bolt lugs on the backside would be great for maximum insurance.

What kind of steel used for the receiver and the bolt in the PH version? Are you going to heat-treat the castings at all? How hard in terms of Rockwell C would the steel be?

Near Net Shape is a buzzword used in the manufacturing industry to describe a casting that needs minimum sub-sequent machining before becoming a final product. In most cases, it does not need any machining at all to become a final product. This is especially true in die-casting. Later.

Thanks in advance for more info.

Ming: Thanks for your interest and suggestions. On the PH, we started CAD at the magazine as this controls almost everything. We started with some width and height goals and then stacked various cartridges in an attempt to get to the following goal: (in the magazine) Five .375 H&H, OR four .416 Rigby, OR three .505 Gibbs. Those will be our design centers for magazine boxes.

We do extend the left lug, in our case a dovetailed lug that closely fits the dovetailed raceway for antibind. But, we incorporate a Mauser coller that is coneshaped to rearward, which dictates a cone shape on the leading edge of that lug. Cartridge protrusion from the breach runs just close to .125in. The bolt handle is square, .390 in cross section, and fits into a deep slot in the receiver.

The PH (as all other models) will be cast in two alloys, 415 Stainless, a Ruger proprietary ordinance alloy, and 4140 Chrome Moly. Because they are cast, these receivers retain an allotropic grain pattern, which makes them very tough. They are hardened to Rc 42-44, which gives them good wear characteristics. The basic form is both rigid and symmetical. Because of the shape and relatively uniform distribution of metal, we have been able to hold distortion during final heat-treat to .001 to .002 over the length of the receiver.

Near Net Shape: YES. There's not a lot of sense to employ expensive lost-wax type tooling and then machine the dickens out of the casting. We cut the slot to mount an identical M70 trigger and sear, and we machine out the magazine well to final dimensions. The rear bridge bolt bore is honed to final size and the receiver ring is threaded. A skin cut on the locking lug engagement surfaces assures perpendicular faces and precise lock up. A bunch of holes are drilled for various pins and screws. The receiver ring is faced as is the Mauser collar (done in the same operation as threading). The feed rails get a touchup cut to final shape (depending on magnum or standard cartridge).

The bolts gets drilled for the front end of the firing pin, lugs faced, threaded for the shroud, slotted for the ejector and the extractor. A groove for the extractor ring. The bolt body is precision turned to its final diameter. These steps mentioned are not necessarily done in this order.

Bolt and receiver are cast at 3000deg F, normalized (carbon restored for 4140), quench hardened to Rc 50+, tempered in a salt bath to Rc25, straightened if necessary, machined, rough polished to a brush finish, preheated to remove straightening memory if any, vacuum hardened to Rc 42-44, bead-blasted to remove heat-treat discoloration, buffed to restore the shine. Assembled and shipped.

And as tricky as all that may sound, it doesn't hold a candle to the other stuff. Like extractors, safeties, firing pins, magazine springs and a whole host of other bits.

Cheers

Ming: After rereading your post, I realized I left some things unsaid. The PH bolt body is .800. The coneshaped, dovetailed lug extends beyond the bolt face and to within .005 of the backside of the Mauser collar. On the LA, one potential customer, a short run firearms mfg., wants to machine out the bolt face to .590 for their proprietary line of cartridges. Here the bolt diameter is only .700, yet this step can be done without cutting through the stinger or the metal wall of the extended cone. Hope this clarifies.

Rod

Rod,

I hope the PH will have a Double Square bridge so integral mounts can be machined in.

Best luck with your venture and hope we can see some of your actions down under.

The .223 design is our MINI. It is next for CAD after the PH is finished. USRAC just muddied the water with the WSSM line of cartridges. Now what? Do we keep the .550bolt dia? Or figure the .223WSSM with its Jeffrey parent will take off like a house afire. Luckily, we do not have to make that decision today.

Rod,

I am interested in the mini as well. You are planning to scale the whole action down, correct? What is the current MAX cartridge OAL as proposed? If magazine were 2.6" and the bolt just big enough to hold a standard case head you would open up the door for lots of neat little cartridges and it would still be .5" shorter than your short action. With addition of a slightly longer of magazine a person could a chamber T/CU line, the IHMSA line, 7.62x45, 6x47, 35 Remington, 250 and 300 Savage and a host of others that no action is really suited for. Just wishful thinking. Make mine a 358 Win, and I'll load 220 flatnose bullets to 2.55" and 2200 fps out of a 20" barrel. Done up right, it would weigh about 6.75 lbs with a scope and be perfect for 80% of my hunting.

DOC

The standard short action will have a magnum boltface/magazine as an option, correct?

DOC

[ 11-01-2002, 19:37: Message edited by: DOC ]

Hux: Sigh! The old square bridge issue. Half of our interested prospects say" Dump the square bridge!" The other half say: "Don't you dare!" Well, we're casting this puppy anyway, maybe we can do both with an insert. Take it out - square bridges. Put it in, Brevex style. Believe me, we're looking hard at this issue.

Doc: To make a true mini, we were planning to scale down the bolt face and bolt body for a maximim face diameter of .441in. This gets the PPC in but not any cartridge with a head diameter of .473. It also gets the .224 Weatherby, which would be .429 and probably the pressure queen of this design. If you look at this class of cartridges, then a magazine length of 2.450 looks fine.

But, look out, here comes the WSSM. Do we need a Super Short Action to match? Maybe, but I'll have to admit to favoring LH actions as a priority before doing anything else. Lefties, watch this space for an announcement in 2-3 weeks.

Cheers,

Rod

A postscript: The M1999 SA prototype exists. The bolt is machined to accept a WSM cartridge. The receiver will be finished shortly. The two bolt faces we plan to offer are .473 and .534. The magazines we are planning are for the .308 family and the WSM family of cartridges.

Rod,

If I understand correctly the rear tang is similar to the post war M70. Have you and your design team ever considered making the tang extend further rearward a-la Mauser? I suggest this small detail as it lends more flexibility in the pistol grip shape and length. Something important to those of us with big hands.
Concerning the extractor. Is this part cast as well? Or will this all important component be machined from spring stock?

Also, I say stick with the square bridges on the PH action.

DavidReed: We did not want to wander too far from the M70 Classic when designing the M1999. Copied many mistakes along with the good stuff, but we're trying to make it easy to put the M1999 into an M70 stock and use M70 scope bases.

The extractor is MIM'd, exactly the same process as USRAC uses in the M70. Our alloy formulation and microhardness "exactly" duplicates the quantitative analysis results of the parent part.

Rod,

Thanks Rod for the info. I will look forward to seeing the PH version becoming a reality soon. If it's gonna be as good as you describe here, then I would definitely order one or maybe two.

By the way, are you using the antique AutoCAD to design the actions? I have done a lot of conceptual work using 3D solid modeling so I might be able to help if you need anything.

Mingo: We are using SolidWorks, from which we create .stl files for our SolidScape PatternMaster and IGS files for CAM systems, as well as drawings and 3D part files. From the STL files, we create 3D models that Ruger can turn directly into steel parts. Functioning parts. We can take a CAD file and from it generate a functioning (if the CAD is right) action in about 30 days. Last year, I worked over Christmas and New Year's holidays and we had four functioning long actions at the Shot Show. Since the casting process typically takes four weeks that's pretty good. Ruger got those prototypes cast in eleven days.

Good stuff indeed Rod. SolidWorks is one of my favorite solid modelers. I used to be a Pro/ENGINNEER man but everything was changed since SolidWorks came into the scene back in 1995. Thanks for the info and please keep us posted on the progress.

Gentlemen

This is almost to good to be true
I wonder how straight and squared up this action is or if you have to do alot of "blueprinting" before the barrel can be installed. I just sounds to little money for this type of action. Most actions will cost twice as much. What is the catch?

I hope that the big action will have the classic mauser features. Mauser has set the standard for big game actions

Cheers
/ JOHAN

Johan: When we priced this action, we knew we could ask twice and much and sell them all. But, we wanted to create an impact. Better to come in with a price we could live with, make a splash, gain some momentum and make it difficult for competitors to undercut our product. Accountants didn't like the strategy, but marketing says customers might. And that's what counts, I think.

This is NOT a benchrest action. In this price range, We couldn't think in tenths of thousandths. The big factories use +/-.005. We chose +/- .001 as the standard tolerance throughout the machining process. Premium big game platforms. The receiver work is done on Matsuura ES450 horizontal CNC machining centers, about as good as it gets. The bolts on Mori Seiki SL250C. Ditto.

The full Mauser collar is cast into the receiver ring. A double-breasted feed ramp for big caliber cartridges. A claw extractor thats closer to the Mauser than the M70, but with enough metal left on it to slip over a round dropped into the chamber.

M70 trigger/sear, safety. Mauser style shroud with gas flange. Sako style bolt release in the Mauser location. Pre-64 style milled stainless follower. All steel bottom metal. Stainless magazine boxes. Front and rear bridges patterned to accept M70 magnum (.330 rear spacing) scope bases. Footprint to fit in an M70 stock with minimal handwork.

With the M70 as the primary design center, we did not undercut the radial slot for the extractor. And therefore, the extractor does not have a foot similar to the Mauser. This feature is planned on the PH.

The object of this project was to develop a customer base for the custom gunsmith, who is our primary customer. We do not make complete guns. Just actions and barreled actions. On the barreled action, we prefer to supply a contoured blank as we have finite capacity for chambering, threading and fitting. However, we will honor all requests for this work.

Rod,
What's the expected cost on the PH action?

GeorgeInNePa: The target retail price falls in the $650-$675 range. We're running some standard long-action castings with a square bridge to explore flow characteristics and gating requirments. LH will carry the same price as RH, which is the case for all of our models.

For those who are interested, we've posted some M1999 photographs on the what's new page of the MRC website. Along with some other toys.

http://www.montanarifleman.com/whatsnew.html

Rod,

Good photos, but which one is mine?

jim dodd

Rod,

Pictures look very good. Are you guys going to put an extra bolt lug behind like the Mauser? Thanks.

Rod@MRC thank you for taking the time to share information with us. I believe if you and your entire staff keep things on this type of personal level and you deliver a quality product you will have much success. I am considering building a 300 Dakota and have been keeping tabs somewhat on the status of your actions. Which action would suit this cartridge and when would if be available for purchase?

HunterJim: Your action is in metal and in a lot of castings about to move into the machining stage. The bolt will begin on the 20th. The receiver on the 21st. I'll get a picture of actual event and post it near the end of November.

Mingo: Not a lug in the sense I believe you mean. Instead, our bolt is cast as a unit and the root is "hell-for-stout". The root engages an equally strong slot in the receiver that has almost twice the area of the upper (and larger) lug on the front end. There is room for set-back, not that we expect any, but the primary design of this feature is to serve as a safety lug.

Sniper: For a 300 Dakota, I would order a CCRM-S or a CSRM-S depending on the alloy. This is the Standard Length magnum, and uses the same box as the 300win. You *might* have to open up the bolt face slightly. Or order it as a barreled action and we'll do it.

Our first two lots are pretty much spoken for at this time. But the third is moving into shell at Ruger. If you order within the next 2-3 weeks, you should be able to get one of those in either alloy. I expect to see machined & polished metal from lot #3 around mid-December. Add a few more days for buff and assembly and it could be a nice Christmas present.

Sounds good I am going to look at your barrels here in a minute.

I will attest to the MRC's rebarrelling services as being top notch. This summer, I had a SS Ruger Model 77 MK II in 30-06 rebarrelled by them to .358 Norma Mag. They also had to open the bolt face up to allow for the larger case head.

The barrelled action came back in less than three weeks. The fit and finish are excellent, with the entire action and barrel bead blasted to a dull matte. The recessed crown on the muzzle is perfect, with no machining rings.

The rifle now rests in the factory laminate stock, freshly glass bedded with the barrel free-floated. Accuracy is superb. 250 grain X-bullets are averaging 1.1" for three shots at 100 yards. 225 grain Ballistic Tips are averaging 3/4", and 200 grain Hornady Spire Points are averaging under 1/2". The best group so far measured .110" (center to center). Three of us at the range measured it carefully with calipers several times before we decided upon .110"

I'm very pleased with the job, and am considering purchasing a barrelled action sometime in the future chambered for .416 Remington.

6.5 Guy: Thanks for the great words. The barrel shop is "across the aisle" from us, but MRC and the Montana Rifleman share a lot of resources, and ownership. The sister company has great people and we rely on them a lot when we need to know "What's wrong with this?" or "How can we make this better?"

Some folks have reminded me that my previous description of the M1999's antibind feature had people scratching their heads.

Here's a view of the dovetail lug to help clear things up.



The lug's upper and lower surface diverge from the root at a combined 24 degree angle. They closely fit the left raceway to provide lateral and vertical stability. Coupled with the close clearances in the rear bridge, yaw of the bolt head is contained, and binding is reduced.

Rod, you broaching that dovetail or wire cutting it?

Looking foward to the PH action.

Al: Neither. It is a cast feature, and one with what Ruger calls, "premium tolerances".

Rod,
What is the barrel thread on these, pitch, diameter, and shank length ?
Has anyone worked up a finished rifle for a model ? Pics ?
Thanks

[ 11-16-2002, 00:12: Message edited by: Kboom ]

Rod,

Did you guys machine a prototype out of barstock for testing before releasing the design for sand casting? What kind of proof load have you done with your action(s)so far? Thanks.

Mingo--

I'll jump in here with "Investment casting 101".

It's NOT "sand casting". You're thinking of how they make engine blocks and sash weights.

Investment, or lost wax casting, is how every Ruger since the original Mk-I has been made.

The part is designed on computer and molds made that cast a hard wax model of the part to be made. These parts are attached together with wax bars or rods into a "tree" with a bunch of parts hanging off of it. This tree is coated in a slurry of ceramic which hardens into something like a smooth stone.
Once that's done the tree is heated in a furnace which melts the wax out the molds.....THEN melted steel (or other alloy) is fed into the tree by centrifical force....the tree is spun around a center axis as molten metal is fed into the center and centrifical force feeds it into the molds....

Once the metal solidifys the molds are broken away from the metal and the feed gates are cut off. The parts are then machined to finished size, if needed.

The process is very old and has been used for jewelery for centuries. Ruger brought it to the gun industry in the 60s and have brought it to the point it is now....which in very good. Extremely tight tolorences and very good finishes can be cast. It's accurate enough to cast threads in some parts.

Alloy content can be very closely controlled and casting solves some of the problems asscociated with forgings. Strength is NOT an issue.