Seems like someone would've by now at least experimented with a bullpup-style bolt action. The magazine could be in the butt, the bolt handle could be somewhat forward-mounted - just behind the strong hand, the scope could be barrel mounted at standard eye-relief. Benefits would be of course a much shorter gun (or longer barrel ), and trimmer lines without the need for a magazine belly, and decreased overall weight. Anyone seen anything like this?
Posts: 2000 | Location: Beaverton OR | Registered: 19 December 2002
I believe there is a German company who makes one along these lines. From the pictures I have seen, it looks a tad over engineered and about as far from a traditional rifle as you can get...Post the question on the European Forums as you might get a better response there..
Regards,
Pete
Posts: 5684 | Location: North Wales UK | Registered: 22 May 2002
There are usually several design features in a rifle to make sure hot gases and metal fragments get vented away from the shooter when a case ruptures. The bullpup design puts the chamber that much closer to the shooter's face. I wonder if that's a safety engineering/product liability problem for manufacturers.
H. C.
Posts: 3691 | Location: West Virginia | Registered: 23 May 2001
They have been on the market for a long, loooong time. Gex' "Crapahute" was one of the first. I have handled one. Very elegant, easy handling and excellently balanced, can be shot with one hand. Remarkable feature: the Crapahute can be easily cycled with the left hand, while you have it still at your shoulder, with the right hand on the pistol grip.
Regards, Carcano
Posts: 2452 | Location: Old Europe | Registered: 23 June 2001
Carcano91: I'm, sure "crapahute" means something very elegant somewhere in the big wide world but if that is the name they marketed them under in the USA its very likely the reason none of us yanks know of it.
Posts: 11141 | Location: Texas, USA | Registered: 22 September 2003
Quote: I'm, sure "crapahute" means something very elegant somewhere in the big wide world but if that is the name they marketed them under in the USA its very likely the reason none of us yanks know of it.
My thoughts exactly. still . I was taken back to some of my University marketing classes. Trust me there have been worse translation errors across languages and cultures.
Posts: 2659 | Location: Southwestern Alberta | Registered: 08 March 2003
That Mauser link is one ugly gun. Also, seems a good idea to bring the bolt handle forward on the bolt, as far as possible, so you're not reaching around behind you to cycle. You could have the bolt travel be within the butt, similar to the recoil buffer on the M16.
Posts: 2000 | Location: Beaverton OR | Registered: 19 December 2002
Here is the link to a very instructive thread where Gex' "Crapahute 98 II" is discussed. At the top you see a picture of the gun which I have handled; "Tiroler Bracke" is a good acquaintance of mine. Also noteworthy are the technical details of the discussion, problem spotting, the trigger transfer rod etc.:
Several years ago,60's & 70's, there were several remington 600's made into bullpups. Some used XP-100 mid-grip triggers or modified them to set the trigger farther forward, Fagen made beautiful stocks for them.
Posts: 261 | Location: SW MO | Registered: 26 May 2002
Hate to deviate from the topic but this one is choice, Chuck. Colt has always made special runs of Gov'mt models to sell near the border with spanish names engraved on the sides. Very popular in Mexico and usually in 38 Super as that is highly regarded in Mexico. Anyway, after a run of things like the "Scorpion" or whatever; they decided to release a compact model nicknamed to reflect it's suitability for concealment. After a lot of really poor research they came up with "La Tapada" (forgive me you who know spanish...I spelled that phonetically as I remember the story told) which literally means "the hidden one" or similar.
What Colt didn't grasp was that the normal use for the phrase in most of Mexico was to describe a family member that brought shame or embarrasment to the rest, most often the legendary retarded uncle "hidden" in the attic.
Thsi was related to me by a South Texas dealer that sold many Scorpions but had to send all his uncles back to Colt.
Posts: 11141 | Location: Texas, USA | Registered: 22 September 2003
I know it probably wouldn't make much difference in the event of a catastrophic failure, and I also know that our military use the Steyr in 223 (bullpup design), but somehow the idea of 50 -60K psi right next to my handsome features disturbs me. I would also have thought that, given that rifles are primarily designed around military needs, ie for reasonably quick cycling, that it would make sense to have the trigger hand close to the bolt handle? Not to mention the backlash and play that would be inherent to the trigger/sear connecting mechanism?
P.S. Ah, the vagaries of the English language, I just ducked outside for a cigarette, and my beloved son has been reading this. His comment? Why would you use a rifle for cycling? Wouldn't you use a bicycle instead? I had to remind myself that I love him dearly, and I may not get a jury of my peers!!
Posts: 1275 | Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia | Registered: 02 May 2002
Quote: I would also have thought that, given that rifles are primarily designed around military needs, ie for reasonably quick cycling, that it would make sense to have the trigger hand close to the bolt handle?
Quote: Also, seems a good idea to bring the bolt handle forward on the bolt, as far as possible, so you're not reaching around behind you to cycle.
Posts: 2000 | Location: Beaverton OR | Registered: 19 December 2002
Quote: I know it probably wouldn't make much difference in the event of a catastrophic failure, and I also know that our military use the Steyr in 223 (bullpup design), but somehow the idea of 50 -60K psi right next to my handsome features disturbs me. I would also have thought that, given that rifles are primarily designed around military needs, ie for reasonably quick cycling, that it would make sense to have the trigger hand close to the bolt handle? Not to mention the backlash and play that would be inherent to the trigger/sear connecting mechanism?
I know what you mean, but look at the bolt location on a traditional rifle...kinda looks like having a humane killer a few inches infront of your head!
I think the trigger mechanics have been pretty well sorted out; i think the biggest problem is where you locate the ejection port so its not fouled in any way....
regards,
Pete
Posts: 5684 | Location: North Wales UK | Registered: 22 May 2002
In the beginning the military use for rifles was volley fire followed by charges and hand-to-hand. The bull-pup leaves much to be desired when fighting a man with a 40" rifle upon which a sharp pointy knife is attached.
Posts: 11141 | Location: Texas, USA | Registered: 22 September 2003
The first bullpups go back to the late 1930s or early 1940s as a means of getting a very long barreled wildcat cartridge varmint rifle into a more compact form, I believe FC Ness, editor of the Dope Bag in the American Rifleman, had a picture of one in the magazine.
The first successful bullpup design was a .303 bolt action rifle designed just before WWI. The Lee Enfield was an already establishes design by then and it was not adopted though British tests showed that it had considerable merit.
I don't remember the name of the designer but I could locate a small piece about it that I have filed away somewhere and e-mail it to anyone interested.
), and trimmer lines without the need for a magazine belly, and decreased overall weight.
.
