Any opinions on rechambering a swede mauser to a 6.5/284 win wildcat. The action should be long enough. Will the bolt face need to be changed? What about the rails and magazine? Any comments about attempting to use the swede military barrel? Thanks in advance for the help.
swede

WYSwede,

I'm sure you will get a lot more responses on this one, but the simple answer is, "DON'T DO IT." The Swede is not designed to safely handle the higher pressures that you could easily generate with a larger case, so why bother? Simply use the excellent 6.5x55 for which it was designed and be satisfied. You'd have to keep pressures of a wildcat down to about that level anyway to keep yourself and the gun from selfdestructing.

If you want to play with 6.5 wildcats based on larger cases, start with the M98 where you can take advantage of the extra capacity to generate higher pressures/velocities.

Russ

Listen to Russ. The Swedish mausers were designed for pressures in the 46,000 CUP range. Most definitely not 54,000. They're simply a '93 or '95 style Mauser.

I doubt any knowledgeable gunsmith will do this work. This action is simply inappropriate for the cartridge you are interested in. -Rob

For a 6.5 X 284, why not a model 98 Mauser? Small ring Mausers are just not built to withstand the pressure of the 6.5/284 combination.

Hell. What's wrong with the 6.5 X 55 cartridge?

Thanks for the info guys...I am a swede fan as you can see by my moniker.
I had talked to some swedes (from Sweden) and they tell me that their factory ammo there is routinely hotter than max on this side of the pond. They said that the swede actions were proof tested much higher at the factory.
I saw a guns & ammo where the swede action took 10 grains over max to blow it. I was wondering if our attitude over here was more product liability oriented.
Not to worry...I wont be doing it...Any comments from our swedish friends??? thanks swede

I have a 6/284 and a 6.5/284 on Swedes.The myth that they are weak started with the no third lug thing.I have only shot 50 or so rounds from the 6.5 but the 6/284 barrel has 1200 or so thru it. It's a Ted Gaillard stainless and shows some throat erosion.To each his own but I believe the 96 Mauser to be equal to or better than most 98's.Neither one of mine show any pressure signs with the same loads as I shoot in my Ruger.Use common sense when working up loads and you will have no trouble other than getting the barrel off the 96 for rechambering.Mark

The third lug has nothing to do with the strength of the 98 action. Its there in case the front lugs fail so the shooter doesn't get a mouth full of bolt. In fact, the third lug is not even touching the action unless you already have excessive set back or someone has screwed up the front lugs by lapping them. The 98 also is designed for better gas venting in the event of case failure. Facts are facts. The 96 is not designed for the kind of pressures the 6.5/284 generates.

Walker:If you read my post I said the myth about strength was started with the third lug thing. In fact the third lug means little. The quality of the metal and the workmanship of 96's is top notch, I would take one of these for a any medium length cartridge.I think they are much better actions than 98's built in the 1940's and unlike most folks my opinion is based on experience not myth and heresay.Mark

Another benefit of the 98 action is their superior gas venting cabability. You are much less likely to get a face full of hot gasses & debris with the 98. With the vast quantities of cheap 98 actions on the market why bother with the 96. Leave it alone and enjoy it as it was made. It's kinda like trying to hotrod a flathead V8. You can do it but why bother?

-Mike

Kimber sold 308's and 22-250's on Swede actions for awhile. I don't think that a company that faces the chance of a lot of lawsuits would do that if they considered them unsafe. Personally, I have a 6.5-06 on a Swede action, no problems at all. Yes, the 98's have more metal and better gas venting, but a lot of 98's were made with somewhat less then premium metal, and I don't think you can say that about the Swede. However, I don't think that either the 96 or the 98 should be exposed to the ultra high pressures that some of the overbore rounds produce. Just my opinion. - Dan

With the possible exception of a catastrophic action failure ( which has occurred with M96 actions by the way) the only way to tell if an action is failing is to look for signs of the receiver locking lugs being set back or peening of the bolt lugs ( all those geniuses who believe lapping lugs makes things better seem to forget that they are in fact grinding away the case hardened part of the bolt and then guess what happens?). In some cases the bolt locking lugs will develop stress cracks and then fracture suddenly and catastrophically. In the case of the M96 you wind up with the bolt going through your head and bouncing along the parking lot behind your dead body. I have built quite a few Mausers and have observed that some ( not all) will indeed set the receiver locking lugs back with high pressure loads. I'm also not the first to have made this observation. Why do you think Roy Weatherby deceided to quit using FN Mauser actions for the .300 and.257 WBY and designed the MarkV? He had plenty of M96's and M98's around! Unfortunately, the average guy isn't in the habit of pulling his action apart and looking for signs of imminent failure.! By the way Weatherby just got tired of all the actions that got sent back to him with set back locking lugs! These actions must be properly re- heat treated or I'm sure they would eventually fail. This also only happened on high pressure cartridge conversions! IMHO the M96 actions are probably Ok up to about 50,000 PSI MAX, and if loaded sanely will stand up, however, there is very little safety factor and if you fire your own or somebody elses hot load or sell the rifle to some one who doesn't understand that the rifle could blow if pushed, then you have a recipe for disaster. In fact, there was a M96 that was wrecked at a local range here about 6 months ago because it was converted improperly to a cartridge that was too hot for the action.. Personally, I think your way better off with a box stock M700. With that said, thats just my advise FWIW.-Rob

Weatherby only had trouble with the long magnums which they ground alot of metal from behind the bottom lug. I agree one would be better off with a model 70,or a Ruger,Sako etc,but 96 actions will work just fine.Mark

In recent times I have shot quite a bit of game with my old M38 swede in 6.5x55 and this cartridge is wonderful. I am loading a no-name 129 grain hollowpoint infront of 39 grains of AR 2208 for around 2700-2800 fps, and it shoots bloody flat and nothing hit properly goes far, they seem to penetrate well to. I reckon leave your swede as a 6.5x55 and understand that all though on paper the 6.5x55 does not look flash it is like the old 45/70 in that the story on paper does not match up to it's real life performance.

I'm sorry to harp on this and mean no disrespect to anyone, but Roy Weatherby most emphatically did not just have problems with the .375 Mag length FN actions, thats just another fable that continues to circulate. He and many many other gunsmiths had problems with all of the Mauser based actions when they hotrodded them. I knew Roy( he lived close by) and have seen some of the rifles that were sent back. You can believe whatever you want about the M96 Mauser, the fact is that it is not and never will be a action suitable for a cartridge above the 6.5X55 swede class. I just don't get the point about why anyone would use one for a high pressure cartridge when they knew what the risks were.
Hey PC- What do you think about building a NYATI on a 96? A few people built them on 98's.-Rob

There is no guarantees on M-98. A little study (especially if you have access to copies of rifle & handloader from days gone by) reveals that there is a great diversity in the strength of the M-98s largely because of the metals heat treatment (and to a lesser extent, the metal itself). This is one of the reason that the VZ-24 are desireable for custom work; their heat treatment is exactly what it should be to produce the strongest actions (some others are as good, too).

While the workmanship on a M-96 swede is excellent, second to none, the fact reamains that none of them have a heat treatment that leads to the kind of Rockwell hardness that promises saftey w/ the 50,000+ cartridges. And, as was stated you can't know how much an issue this is unless you remove the barrel and take a peek or until its to late.

However, there is a solution. Many gunsmiths will not chamber some versions of the M-98 as they are, for modern high pressure cartridges (especially belted magnums) for exactly the same reasons. To resolve the problem they send them off and have them re-heat-treated (I suppose that's a brand new word) bringing them up to the correct Rockwell hardness - not to soft, not to hard and brittle.

Those who do this kind of work, will do exactly the same kind of work on an M-96 swede. It is not very expenisive and makes them as strong as any of the M-98s. I had it done on a sporterized Swede, not because I was going to change it, but just w/ the idea that it is safer to have that extra margin of error when you are trying to get the most out of a 6.5x55.

Beartrack...how much would it cost and what firms do this type of work. interesting idea...thanks. swede

Rob, I was thinking of converting my swede m96 action to a .700 BMG improved instead, would you do the work for me and do initial load testing as well?

PC- I gotta dig a hole cause it's getting deep around here. Yup a .700 Imp on a M96 aught to fit the ticket. I'll have to machine out the receiver ring to fit her in, but what the heck I know it's safe!-Rob

Rob, not a problem. That's what duct tape is for! "If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Dan

Silicon should also help to keep the barrel in

In all seriusness those swedes are just fantastic with the old 6.5x55 and I can say that it kills excellently and to a good range as well.

Pc- Silicone? I thought I needed lock Tite- That's the real secret of making a M-96 really strong.-Rob

Better use the red Loctite. It will withstand the heat treatment.

I would not use the 96 to build a 6.5/284 especially since I think the 6.5x55 is a better cartridge anyway. For any purpose.
I think 96s are in general quite strong but have seen some problems which were mostly the result of gunsmithing or , in some cases, factory refurbishments. The main problem arise from the barrels being pretty tight. I have seen many of the receiver rings mashed so that the bolt wouldn't fit. The smith then did what he could to stretch it out and weakened the action. I some cases the smith used an inside action wrench and, again, stretched the receiver ring weakening it. I saw on case where the receiver split from the injudicious use of an inside wrench. I have also seen a factory rebuilt rifle which failed and it was apparent that the receiver had been hurt during the rebarrelling. The top of this receiver ring blew right off. He was shooting some Yugo ammo which was quite hot but shouldn't have done what it did. These problems occurred just because the 96 action is so slim at the ring.
Anyway, I don't consider it suitable for the purpose. Regards, Bill.

So bill if I want to re-barrel my M38 swede 6.5x55 with a new 6.5x55 barrel can it be safely done without wrecking my action ?? My swede has a little throat erosion and one day I want to rebarrel it with a new 6.5x55 barrel. I hope it can be done safely.

It can be done safely with just a little care. I always cut the barrel at the front of the receiver to relieve stress before removing the barrel. This way it is not necessary to over stress the reciever. I put a tight fitting mandrel into the receiver to prevent distortion when removing and replacing the barrel. In many respects I like the 96 actions and they can be used to make a fine rifle but there are limitations to what should be asked of them IMO. Regards, Bill.