Hi all- I have a question for some of the smiths here. just where did you start out. I am assuming you didn't come out of HS and go into smithing. I was thinking most smiths who do action truing, barrel install, muzzlebrakes ect- are tool and die makers, cnc operators, Cad/Cam guys?

Which one is it? Or what type of profession would you recommend to go into that would give him/her a good basis for getting into smithing on th eside - ie buy a mill and lathe and start off doing your own stuff and then branching out like I would think alot of guys start out like this?

Thanks,

Andrew

take a look at this site.
I have a small lathe and a good drill press. If I need a mill, a friend has an old duplicator that i use. There are schools and there are mail type courses.
IAM NOT A SMITH.

http://www.roderuscustom.tzo.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi

I was just wondering what proffession most of the smiths came from b4 they were smiths- T&D, cnc, cad cam, mech engineers-- just where they came from type of thing.

Thanks tho

Teal325,

To be honest with you, I guess one could say I am still in the set up stage of gunsmithing.

I have been shooting and loading for quite a while and found that I was just unsatisfied with the results I was getting with factory rifles and handguns even with top quality handloads.

Like most others I had several rifles built by gunsmiths and like most I had the usual 6 months to a year wait for these rifles.

I got very frustrated with smiths telling me my rifle would be ready in say a month only to hear the same thing four months later.

I decided then I was just wasting my time. Shooting and hunting is such a huge part of my life that I did not want to wait on over booked smiths to get the work finished so I got into it myself.

I took a two year corespondence corse that covered rimfires, handguns, shotguns and rifles.

I then enrolled in a machine shop course to learn the ins and outs of the Lathe, Mill, Drill press and all the other machines and tools associated with the trade.

Last summer I, with the help of other family members, built my 40'x60' shop. I ordered and moved in my Jet GH1440ZX lathe which is plenty large enough for all gunsmithing work up to an including 30 mm cannon barrels.

This lathe is MUCH larger then is needed for general gunsmithing but I build 50 BMG rifles and needed a lathe large enough for such barrels.

I also purchased vertical mill, drill press, all the grinders, sanders, blast cabinets, compressors, vises and accessery tools for the shop.

I just recently purchased and am in the process of starting up my metal blueing system. Should have it up and running by the end of the week hopefully without to many problems.

About all I have left to purchase for major tools is a TIG welder which will hopefully be coming here in teh next year or so.

I went into gunsmithing as a career, not as a part time job. In fact I want it to replace my current job and I plan on leaving that job totally by the beginning of September.

My wife and I have invested a large amount of money into the shop, roughly $50,000 so far. I know this is not much compared to some shops but for me its alot of money.

We planned and saved for nearly 10 years up to this point and finally its starting to pay off.

One can get into gunsmithing for alot less with used machinery and a much smaller shop but as I said, this is my career to I wanted the best I could possible afford, that is the most accurate machines I could afford.

It takes alot of time and money to set up a gunsmithing shop. If you have access to an apprentice position with a local gunsmith, this is often the best way to learn relatively quick, that is if the smith is a good one.

There are also several campus based gunsmithing schools around the nation, if you can afford them and have the time to put in to them, they are top notch.

Good Shooting and Good Luck!

50

I'm in the Navy right now - looking to go to college after and was thinking that a tool and die or cad/cam, type of job would let me pay the bills while "building" a smithing business on the side. In addition to teaching me the shop practices needed to do accurate work. I do have a bit of perfectionist attitude - particulary when I'm building something.

I would LOVE to go to PO Ackleys school in Trinidad and have the Gunsmithing as a full time job but i am worried bout making ends meet/getting a job - lots of horror stories out there. All I am really asking for is the ability to support the fam/ nice little house and a reliable vehicle in the garage.

Dream would to go to gunsmith school- work for someone else for a while and then open my own place - I would like to concentrate on accurate rifles but not only on the rem 700 platform- Rugers and such. And also do wood and blue rifles- like dave miller- no way saying im in that class but I would like to try!!


Thanks for the replies so far!

Andrew

Well, I'm not a gunsmith either, but I have certainly toyed with the idea for a long time. Here are some thoughts... Working on other people's guns is nowhere near as fun as working on your own, because you have to give them back. In most gunsmithing work, you have to deal with people who often expect a lot for not much money.

Gunsmithing for a living means time is money. I can do super work if I take my time, but a professional smith can't always afford to do this, so they either have to be really good, or really poor, or both. The very best gunsmiths tend to specialize either in one type of work or in one brand of firearm. This would get boring to me.

What I have done is spend 20 years in the military in a field that has good employment opportunities as a civilian. I now get a modest retirement check every month that allows me to start a new profession if I want without starving. Last week, I got an Associate degree in machine tool technology and I am a relatively competent machinist. Although machinists generally make more money than gunsmiths, they are still underpaid in my opinion. My current plan is to go back into the field I did in the army and spend the extra money on better machinery. I will keep gunsmithing a hobby at least until the house is paid off. Its more fun that way, and I can develop skill at my own pace.

If I do get into it for money, I will probably either make a unique, high-quality part, or do strictly accuracy/custom work. Repair work seems like it would be a drag.

You don't have to be a tool and die maker to be a good gunsmith. Tool and die making usualy involves making injection molds or dies that are used to punch out stamped parts. They generally work in tolerences that would be too close for most firearms and they take more time to get it done. You should definitely learn manual machine skills and be familiar with CNC programming. All good machine tool education programs will teach both.

Good luck in whatever you decide. Keep your options open by learning as much as you can. - John

I stocked My frist rifle when I was 12. I built a muzzleloading rifle when I was 13, and made the stock from a blank
I took a year of "machine shop" in highschool and I read everything I could get my hands on, on the subject. I was fortunate enough to know an old German craftsman, who taught me to use hand tools when I was in Jr. high and High school. I started doing gunsmithing for hire when I was 16 and other than my time in the military, I have done it ever since. I am now 48. I have done just about every aspect of gunsmithing from time to time,(everything to highly tuned handguns, to sniper rifles, to double rifle work, and about ebverything else) but I earn my living on hand made muzzleloared now. (back to my first love) I have posted a few pics on this site of My work, and I'd like to think it's OK

Let me give you my view on your view.

You want what we all want, family, house, something we love to do to pay for it all. Yes there are horror stories out there about getting a job and making ends meet, but in my experience, there are more stories out there of missed opportunities and men that suffer in silence because they came to exactily the same cross road you're facing and they didn't take it.

The decision you make now will affect you the rest of your life.

I'm 58, I just had all my inner works examined, stress test and all, and I'm in excellent health. I'm retired. I fished three days this month, all day long. I hunt two or more states each year. I'm doing this becasue of a decision I made back in the seventies. Back then, the law enforecment jurisdiction that I retired from wanted college educated people as officers. To encourage that goal, they initiated a 20% incentive pay. I went after the pay, earned a BA, and got the 20%. That 20% allowed me to retire at 48.

Avoid the regret and risk the horror of getting a job and making a living. To me, the greater regret is getting to this stage and looking back with regret at opportunities missed. I'm not doing that, and I know I have it made. What's scary, is I didn't think this far ahead and actually plan for how I'm living now. I just wanted a 20% increase in pay and went after it. Get an education NOW. Get the training you want NOW. That all you got. Later will be NOW. You want to feel regret, or do you want to get up and go fishing, or hunting, or shooting? I got here, but it was more accident that plan. Plan and execute. Suffer a bit now. Bacon and beans, a small place to live. You won't regret it.

I did start right out of High School to fulfill a desire to build custom rifles I have had from a very, very early age. I enrolled and graduated from CST in Denver and was also an instructer at the same school. While at CST I met Thomas E Wilson and while he was still alive and got my first taste of real high grade custom work.I learned alot from Wilson in regards to the advantages of a stock turned on a machine( he had 1 of 6 made by Dale Goens and was the first of four different machines I was to learn how to run)and an excellent exposure to rust bluing.I then went to Kalispell Montana to do my "Graduate Work" with Jerry Fisher, Tom Burgess and Monte Kennedy and I have never looked back.

Before Kalispell, I flew to G&H right after I got finished at CST to apply for a job and hopefully learn something. They did want to hire me but the pay was zero. I also traveled to and applied for a job with David Miller prior to graduation right after Curt Crum went to work for David as we were both at CST. David said "you bet" then changed his mind at the very last moment.

I have never sat on my fat ass (and it's getting fatter) hoping to learn something, rather I have gone after what I felt was required to expand my skills and produce the best work I was capable of. In short I have always been a full time professional in the trade.

Mr. Echols,

I too have had that desire to make custom guns from an early age ( I was 12) Today I realized that I would be graduating from Trinidad Junior College this month if I had done that instead of joining the Navy.

I guess maybe the question I should have asked was- what would be the best "feeder" profession for somebody who MAY not be able to go to school- whats going to give them the best building block - shop practices, technique and such so that they caould be a fairly competant gunsmith on the side and then easing into it full time.

I am sure that you, Mr. Echols get quite a few people pounding at your door looking for a job, I guess I am scared that assuming I get out of the navy at 31, 2 years of trade school and then start trying to get my foot in the door- I'll really be pushing my luck in finding a job.

Yuo have done very well for yourself and I am sure your drive and personal work ethic has something to do with it BUT you obviously ahve a tremendous amount of talent too.

So - to get to the end-- just what are the job prospects for an older starting out smith with a piece of paper either from CST or Trinidad ?

I would love to go on my own someday but - kind of hard to hang your shingle if no one know who you are or your work!

Thanks for the interrest!


Andrew

PS if you or anybody was going to open a shop today - would you push as hard as you can for cnc equip or still go with the manual lathe- I realize that you would prob end up with both but can you gat by with a cnc setup befor buying a manual?

Teal,

As somebody who is currently slowing learning gunsmithing things (very very slowly, a little here and there, no prospect of going into it for a business right away) I will tell you a couple of things I have personally discovered and what my thoughts are on it.

First, if you are going to pursue metal work, if you start out as a tool and die maker you cannot go wrong. Of course you could be in a situation like me where you can't find a tool and die making school close by to attend.

It seems to me that metal is the less populated field of gunsmithing, meaning there are more stockmakers than metalsmiths. Something to remember though, the majority of gunmakers out there right now are older, meaning over 40, and mostly over 50 from what I have observed. this says to me that there will be more room for new gunsmiths soon. I hope this to be the case. And since at the rate I am going it will probably be about 15 years before I am any good at any part of it I should be ready at the right time!!!

Red

Thats a good point bout the numbers retiring- but the number of new shooters are down too - hope the ratio is good! I don't know - been depressed all day bout passing on that school- brings me to the next question - of the 2 schools - Colorado School of Trades and PO Ackleys old one in Trinidad - which? I see a lot of CST grads but few Trinidad grads. As gunsmiths working out there who would you hire?

I don't think I would hire anybody based solely on which school they went to. I want to know their personality, who recommends them, how their work is etc. For me since I live in Fresno, Kalifornia, if I were going to go to a school it would be the one up in Susanville, Lassen Community College. It is also inexpensive and has the classes setup on a 1 week basis.

I have looked into CST though and in fact got a message on my answering machine last week (my wife has family in between Colorado Springs and Denver and we were talking about moving out there where the air is clean).

I'd love to go to any of them, would love even more to get on as an apprentice somewhere. we'll see how I do in the next few months of playing with things, the wife and I agreed that I can pursue school if I end up having any aptitude for this stuff at all. Of course, there is always the lottery.......

Red

PS
Never beat yourself up over decisions that might have been wrong, this can take up way too much time (if you make decisions like I do ;-) and accomplishes nothing. Just make your decisions now based on what you have learned from what may have been previoius mistakes.

Andrew
I'm not sure age is a limiting factor except in one regard and that is learning directly from what you have produced in the past and being able to evaluate what you've done and how it has held up. What needs revision, what needs to be to be axed and what you need to keep on line. In this regard youth can be a valuable allie. Being able to question the norm has been a critical tool yet has kept me off a number of Christmas card list. CST was a big help for me as I came from a household that didn't own a screw driver or hammer. Being a stockmaking instructor at CST was wonderful job and at that time John Sones and I had 80 students between us. Thats 80 hands on stock making projects to monitor and correct at one time. That will keep you thinking outside the box. Basic machine shop training is a must, the stock making instuction, well that is not as simple to come by.

The time I spent with Jerry Fisher and Tom Burgess was a pivotal point in my career. Working along side such giants was and still is pretty heavy stuff even today.It was not so much the instuction rather the exposer to their work and mind set that left me with a lasting impression. For many years I have tried to learn all I can from many disciplines such as the advances made by 1000 yard gunsmiths. What they have prefected in the areas of fit and chamber work can be applied to what I do as well. Anything can help. If you free your mind your ass will follow.

How do you get that type of training? They didn't come looking for me I went looking for them. In 25 years I have had only five people ask me about employment. I just lost one. He had no formal training at all and worked for me part time. Inside Bart Stam lies a Rifle Maker waiting to be released.

I had a plan and when you have a plan you have a chance.

Teal, It sounds like you are a few years behind me, but on the same path. FOR ME the reality of the dream looks more tarnished the closer I get to achieving it. Businesses need to turn a profit and as I said earlier, time is money. In many places a starting machinist with a 2 year degree can expect to make about $12 an hour. I can't imagine a starting gunsmith would do any better. I tried to get on as an apprentice at Cole gunsmithing, because they are local and do world-class work. Rich Cole couldn't afford to take me on at the time. He explained that besides having to pay me around $10 an hour, he had to take his time (worth about $100 an hour) to teach me. Thats a lot to ask of any business. He recommended trying to get a job at a gun manufacturer's repair center to learn, then strike out on my own later.

Another benefit the experienced gunsmiths posting here had by starting so early is they probably didn't have families to support during the lean years starting out. My family will always be a bigger dream for me than gunsmithing, and a bigger priority.

How much time do you have invested in the navy? Retirement has given me the financial freedom to make more choices now (at 40 years old). Your GI Bill educational benefits will disappear five years after you separate, so plan accordingly. I received $900 a month to go to a community college that boasts the largest machine tool program in New England. Tuition was only about $300 a month, so the rest helped cover living expenses. Retirement pay and my wife working covered the rest. If you can continue to tolerate military life, the service offers unlimited training for those motivated enough to seek it. The navy has the best machinists of any service too. Maybe you could re-up for it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to discourage you from realizing your dream. I just want you to know what you might be setting yourself up for and what you might be giving up. There are worst services to be in right now than the navy and it seems like in every bar I've ever been to, I met someone who had been in the service and wished he'd stayed til retirement.

You need to learn manual machining before CNC. CNC really doesn't offer as much benefit to gunsmiths anyway, because its value lies in saving time in small production runs. You write the program once, set up the vise or fixture for repeatability, set the offsets and you can produce part after part with the push of a button. They are money making machines, but most gunsmiths don't need to make part after part. You also need to know a lot about machining technique to effectively write a CNC program and run it. Manual machining is the best way to learn that.

Good luck in whatever you do. - John

Teal325,

Although I am my no means a professional gunsmith I will offer my opinion FWIW.

I do my own gunsmith work, for the most part, and am currently building a few rifles and a couple of handguns. Some I may sell someday but most will forever reside in my safe. I own and operate a job shop where we do a fair amount of DOD subcontract work. I started at 8 years old drilling out test tube racks for my dad's business on a manual Bridgeport. I've been in this field in some way ever since. Put myself through college (Physics and Math) and eventually purchased that business when I was 27. I did strictly manual work until 1980 when I got to work on my first CNC. It was the old punch real and Teletype set up. In 1990 I got to work on my first CAD/CAM software that only did 2 1/2 dimensional work (could only make moves in 2 of the three axis�s simultaneously.) Now I work on 4-axis machines everyday and with a bit of luck will have a 5-axis machine soon. That's the short version of "how I got started"

Learn on manual machines. If you can do it manually it is only easier on a CNC. Tool and die work would be the best training ground but you�re not going to get that job without doing time in a much lower shop position. I own two shop type business and without a doubt the biggest need in the industry are people who can do more that sit at a computer, draw a picture, and post a program. Learn how to do everything manually, threading, tapping, milling, drilling, turning, reaming etc. If guns are your passion find an old smith and try to work for him. Do it for free if you have to. Think of it as tuition. I do most things on CNCs these days because I have them but I still could do them manually if I needed to.

Understand chatter, get the "feel" of the machines, and learn turn the handles on all shop equipment the right direction every time all the time without thinking about it. Get to the point where your ears tell you as much or more than your eyes on how well something is cutting. Then you are ready to start to do some CNC work. Gunsmith work is as much art and passion as it is metalwork and woodwork, at least to do it right.

You will not be ready after a two-year program. There are far too many basics to learn and none that you get to immerse yourself in to be proficient at. You will need to get that on the job. I certainly would not consider such a program as a prerequisite for this kind of work. It makes no difference to me in my hiring. I�ve seen as many bad habits taught at good.

If I were in your shoes I would try to find a shop where I can apprentice, most likely a job shop or small gunsmith shop. I would try to work a deal with the owner to work after hours on doing minor gunsmith jobs on my own guns to maybe building a complete rifle every 6 months for myself. This may be easier in a job shop setting because there would be no conflict of interest. You�d be getting real training; a check (although a small one) and you�d be doing some work that you would have to show others down the road.

Take pride in your work no matter how small the job. Ask yourself when you're done with a job would I have any complaints if I was spending my money on this. If the answer is yes then it's not ready for the customer.

Lastly, don�t expect to get rich. You can make a good living but unless you�re the next Sam Colt or Bill Ruger don�t expect too much. This is art and artists usually don�t live to see the wealth of their work.

Of course, this is only one man�s opinion so take it for what its worth to you. I wish you the best of luck.

I have always been interested in gunsmithing, but pursueing a gunsmithing career would no doubt lead to loss of parts of my anatomy at the hands of my wife. She seems to think a suit and tie along with a regular paycheque and a dental plan are more appropriate to my personality. How shallow is that?!



Metalsmithing has me the most intrigued and I don't think that particular fascination is quite normal when it comes to rifles, and that's OK, as fits me to a T. When admiring a custom rifle the metal gets the first scrutinizing eye (although some stock work is darn hard to look past) and the rest follows. Stock design and function are far more important to me than appearance.



For my tastes, gunsmiths who care about their product, strive to achieve perfection, pay attention to detail, and care about me are on the short list. All the trying, and personality in the world, however, does not a competent gunsmith make, so the list grows shorter.



I tip my hat to those who strive to perfect their art, and can't help but feel a little envy. So for those contemplating gunsmithing as a career, I say go at it like D'Arcy has. We need more of the good ones.



Chuck

Well I have 2 years in with 4 to go - more or less. The problem is the Navy will not let me re-enlist unless I stay in my current rate- granted its cushy but over all I am not happy. Maybe that is the reason I am bent over not going to gunsmith school.

I know I could be a good gunsmith- I know I can put in the hours in the shop plus still keep a smile on my face when someone comes in the shop (military taught me that!!)

I am just wondering how someone gets that first job? It seems to me that if I was unknown but did the work of Mr. Echols and walked into a shop, handed them a piece of work , my merits would be self evident- I would have the job- but REALISTICALY how do I walk into a shop cold and say "heres my degree, my love of guns and quality work please hire me?"

Would you say it is a good idea to build a rifle in class as a means to showcase what you can do?


I would think the point bout time is $$ is really relevant too - I may be able to turn out work like some of the big names but I might need more time to do so, that could be a problem. With expirence comes speed I guess?

BTW given the jobs I have had I would love to make 12/hr. I never have come close to that, bout 9.50 was tops 14-18 hrs a day 6 days a week.

Mr Echols - would you say it is better to specialize ie stock work or metal work or be an overall gunsmith? Be able to go from the lathe to the checkering cradle so to speak?

Thank you all so far - You are helping me in ways you could never know. Mr Echols - I may just me number 6 in 6 years ?LOL

Seriously thank you - it is an honor to converse with such gunsmiths.

Andrew

In the begining I started my business with a very strong emphasis towards stock making, stock duplicating and rust bluing. I soon found out that good metalsmiths were buried with work and I couldn't predict when I'd get any metal to stock. I needed to eat on a regular basis so I began my own metalwork out of survival. Today I send a limited amount of work out of my shop on a regular basis to be done to my specs by those who can do it better than I can. In the end this is a win, win situation for the client and it keeps the ball rolling while I'm doing what I do best. I have had the pleasure to work with many of todays best craftsman such as those mentioned before and others such as Bob Schniedmiller, Bret Wursten, Steve Heilmann, Gene Simillion, Duane Bolden, John Sones, David Wilson, Mitch Moschetti, Mark Penrod and have talked at length with folks such as Clay Spencer, Bruce Baer, Martin Hagn, Jim Borden, David Trevallion, Bill Shehane and a host of other gunmakers here, from the UK and from Europe.Some work only in metal, some in wood, some in fiber glass and some like Shehane only organize a project and then spank everybody with what he has orchestrated on the 1000 yard firing line. But from each of these talents you can get a pretty good idea of what works and what doesn't. You then try to apply what they consider vauable into your own work when and where it's applicable.I guess the point of all this is to find a niche you enjoy and strive to excel in it. Often this means putting your head in the ditch and ass in the air.

I prefer to assemble the entire rifle. This has both good and bad aspects. You get to bathe in the all the glory when things go well and conversely take a beating when things go down the toilet. When your name is on the barrel you have no one to blame as you are the company.

There is nobody I know that has screwed up as much stuff as I have. The upside to failure is education. When you do the whole project you get a solid education in a very short amount of time or you get very hungry. For some reason I still seem to flunk out on the night classes.

When you're doing the whole box of dice you never find the day boring. Long, but never boring. Sort of like fishing for Great Whites with a hand line.

teal

I started gunsmithing at Trinidad from '89 to '92. There were some great teachers there. After my second year I worked the summer for Linebaugh in Cody. When I graduated and then went through the third year program I was sure I knew it all. Boy was I wrong. I did get a good background in the basics, but soon found out how little I knew about making a living at it. I wanted to have my own shop, but only had a 9" Southbend for machines. I took a job at Dakota Arms for 4 1/2 years and learned how to build actions from scratch. I also taught myself CNC programming on my own time while working there and a friend helped me with CAD drawing. I also stocked an average of 3 or 4 rifles a week and really tried to make every one better than the last.

After I torched the bridge at Dakota, five alarm fire, I and two coworkers moved to upstate New York and built Titanium Mausers for a year. The salesman couldn't sell many so the banker (one of the few paying customers) told the owner of the large machine shop I worked at to loose the gunshop.

I moved back to S. Dakota with my soon to be new wife and built rifles at Miller Arms for a year. Built mostly match winning Shutzen style falling blocks with the occasional, welcomed by me, sporting rifle.

I got offered a job, not gun related, for 2 1/2 times wages I was making at guns and decided to move again. I now live 100 miles NW of Chicago and wish to move back to the wild West. My wife and I thought this job would allow us to have some great health insurance and an opportunity to collect some machines. We now have two boys, one less gall bladder(wife) and one hearnaited disk with surgery (me) and all the doctor bills that go with them. Never under estimate the need for good health insurance. Here I also have collected a CNC machining center, surface grinder, 13" Southbend lathe, Southbend drill press, 8" shaper, large compressor and blasting cabinet, large horizontal bandsaw, vertical bandsaw, TIG welder, Hardinge mill, bluing tanks, and a type7 manufacturing license from the alphabet boys.

I'm currently working on prototype bolt gun stuff and am looking forward to moving West again when my after hours gunmaking starts to pay the bills. I hope it's sooner than later!

A lot has changed at Trinidad since I was there. All the teachers I had have retired and I don't know the ones they have now. I suggest you check in the Brownell's catolog and find info on ALL the Smithing schools. Find out if the teachers there have the background to teach you what you want to learn. I wanted to learn CNC while at Trinidad and a year after I left they bought a Haas VF0. O well, I learned on my own time and was happy to do it. The prices for tuition vary greatly around the country so that is worth checking out as well. There's also a lot to be learned working for someone else. In my case I wanted to make my own bolt guns on my own action right out of school. Now that I've learned how to build them while getting paid working for other people and have a pile of machines in my garage, my personal goal is getting closer.

I hope you do well in your quest for gunsmithing. I sure enjoy the work I've done.

gunmaker
http://users.elknet.net/chico

Thanks for the replies. I had always assumed I would need to be the shop monkey for someone else b4 I could go it alone. I drove out to Trinidad a few month b4 I joined the Navy- fell in love with the area but for the family I assumed I would need to live in Pueblo and make the commute.

I really have to keep the wife happy at the same time, we have some really good friends in Denver so I think CST would be a pretty good fit for us, for right now - I;m gonna order some books from Brownells (mostly stock making stuff, chechering tools and the like) and take some machine shop classes while I'm in the Nav, they pay 100% and it doesn't come off my GI BILL so I should have a slight head start. I'm going to try to accumulate some of the smaller lools needed b4 I gat out- punches, rasps, stockmaking tools, ect.

Can anybody reccomend a way to practice checkering? - I was thinking of usinf banister spindles - round so I can get used to curves with out trying to fin d a stock that doesn't have checkering already on it. Any suggestions?

Andrew

Andrew

I am not a smith, so I can not comment on the school portion but I have kind of been in your shoes.

I went into the USAF at 17 years old as soon as I graduated high school in 1975. I loved planes and flying, and wanted to be an aircraft mechanic. My recruiter convinced me to get into base communication. Specifically I went into Telephone Central office maintenance. This was OK, but not what I really wanted to do. After about 2 years I went to the base personnel office, to find out about changing career fields. I was told that I had to stay in my current career field for four years. So I figured what the heck, I would stick with it another couple of years and then change. Well I ended up really enjoying the job, after a change of bases, and spent my entire six years doing this job. August will be my 29th year in this industry. The one thing I kick my self in the butt for is not staying in 20 years and retiring, (kind of proves Beelzebubbas point). If I had, I could have retired nine years ago. The retirement would not have been fantastic, but it would have been there every month, and would have tied me over, while I went to school to do what I want to do now. Gunsmithing!!

I will probably never do any gunsmithing except sporterizing mismatched surplus mausers and enfields.

Now back to you. I believe that I read into your post, that you are 27, or will be soon. Also you still have 4 years left in the navy. Check with your base personnel office and find out when you can cross train into a new career field. Then find out what you have to do to become an armorer for the Navy. The last time I checked, they had Colt M-16's and M-4's. They also had Berettas and 870 shotguns. And if I am not mistaken, they still have an outfit called the seals, that use H&K MP5's and other cool weapons. It would not be a bad deal to be factory trained to work on any or all of those weapons. You could even make friends with the guys in the base machine shop. Good craftsmen are usually proud of their work, and are willing to mentor somebody with the love of their trade. If you did this, you might find that doing 20 years would not be all bad. You could still retire at 45. This would give you a guranteed monthly check, while you build your business.

I have read either on this board, or another board that one of the schools has week long classes that you can take in the summer. You could burn leave while taking these classes. You would have to pay the tuition and expenses, but you would still get a paycheck. Who knows, to get your hands on different weapons, you could explain to a local gunsmith that you are an navy armorer and would work for him for minimum wage or store credit for more experience, as you are just tired of working on full auto weapons all of the time. Or you could build up a clientele while still in the navy.

If you do start gunsmithing, buy a good camera as a tool, and take pictures of everything you work on. They will serve two purposes:
1. It will show you how much you have improved over the years.

2. It will help you build a portfolio, for future clients.

I know you are frustrated, but if this is really what you want to do, there are many avenues open to you. You have gotten some excellent advice from Mr. Echols, Finegunmaker and Beelzebubba just to name a few.

Good luck,

riggins

Well - I would love to change jobs - the problem is I work in a job that the Navy deems too valuable. I asked if I could change when I re-enlisted, told no the Navy would rather lose me all together than spend the $ to re train me, prob is if I were to re-enlist I would automaticaly need to get some additional training bout 63-90 weeks worth, I asked how is that cost effective? was told it isn't but its the way things are gonna be done.

I don't know - talked to the wife and she thinks I should go for it - school that is- it is the one thing (working on guns) that has mede me happy- I have looked into other careers (engineering, law, law enforcement ect) but being a gunsmith is the only thing I have consistantly come abck to as a dream job.

Remember "Office Space" ? What would you do if you could do anythin? (as in you won the lottery?) I would still want to be a gunsmith - I know the drive is there.

Thanks