I've got a Browning stainless stalker in 7mm/08 that is very fussy. But I have noticed that the second group of three shots is always much better than the first.

For example, Today I fired two groups of three shots each using a max load of IMR4320, a 120 gr Sierra ProHunter, CCI 200, and Rem case from a cold fouled barrel. The first group measured 1.75". However, after the barrel heated up, on the second group of three shots measured 0.65".

Yesterday, I shot two groups of three using a completely different load. The load was 43 grains Varget, 140 grain Sierra ProHunter, CCI BR2, Rem Case. The first group of three was shot from a cold fouled barrel. The group measured 1.45". The second group after the barrel heated up was an incredible 0.45".

Does anyone but me notice a pattern here? If I can only get a deer to stand still until the fourth shot then I should be O.K.!

No, seriously I know this is acceptable hunting accuracy but I have noticed this trend for a number of different loads. I have fired this gun for nearly 500 rounds so far and can't get a good group on the first go round. Any insights???

Thanks,

X

If this is a deer (hunting) gun, my first question is....
1. Is your first shot on target? (Hit what you�re aiming)
2. Have you checked all the hardware? Screws?
3. Is this a synthetic stock? Temp sensitive.
4. Is the barrel free floated?
5. You get my point..

The biggest thing is, if it is a hunting rifle, than your really not going to be shooting for groups.. If Groups are what your looking for get a heavy barrel, and start over..
My heavy barrel 7-08 Remington makes little tiny holes... But I will tell you it is a bear to carry during deer season...

Sorry my post looks sarcastic.. Not meant to be..
Another question,, Have you hit max on your load, or worked the load at all? (is it straight from the book)
My remy likes 44 grains of varget...

[ 05-13-2003, 05:22: Message edited by: Mauserkid ]

x-caliber
I have a 280 rem. with the opposite problem. The first shot out of a cold bore will consistly group at the desired location, however if the barrel heats up at all the next shots walk in a consistant pattern. To date the rifle has two one shot kills to its credit, one at 100 and the other at 225 yards. I have tried all kinds of load combinations and the best group has been over an inch, with the shots fired over about 25 minutes.
This gun is destined to be rebarreled. As a hunting outfit it is suitable, but it is pure frustration to shoot at paper.

x

What do the 3rd and 4th groups do? Sounds like a bedding problem to me. You can try taking the barreled action out and checking that there are no pressure points on the barrel. Check that the guard screws are not binding and the bolt handle is not touching on the stock when closed.

Snowy

x-caliber, I have one that does something similar under very cold conditions. It goes from shooting in the 4.0" for 5 shot groups to groups approaching 0.40" but it takes more like 2 or 3 groups. I have yet to explain it but mine only happens when it is below freezing. Your barrel is heating up so there still can be a temperature variable in the mix.

I have attempted some fixes to mine but the seasons have not given me the cold weather yet to test them out.

You sound like you know how to shoot so I am assuming that the subsequent groups (after the 2nd) stay small.

I think that there are residual stresses in the barrel. Cryo-treating will not help a well-made rifle, but it might help this one.

X,

This type of situation is not all that uncommon. Howeevr there will be some variation in how many shots it takes to get right.

Common causes either individually or a combination of all.

1) As Snowy13 said bedding. Often a rifle after a few shots seems to settle into a corner, if you know what I mean. A similar thing can and does happen with scopes and mounts. Next time you shoot, put the rifle to one side for a couple of hours (without cleaning)after the good 2nd or 3rd group. After a couple of hours go back to your target and see how it goes. If bedding, scope and mounts are OK, it should continue shooting to the group where you left off. However it may well throw the first shot because you are shooting the first shot from cold hard fouling.

By the way, a quick check on bedding (not 100% but a good indicator) is to loosen off the tang screw while shooting. A well bedded rifle (assuming free floating) will keep grouping with no real change in point of impact.

2) If you are cleaning the barrel with copper solvents like Sweets (or Hoppes left in the bore)that often causes problems. Many barrels prefer to shoot with a wash of copper in them. In fact a common thing at many rifles ranges is for someone to have his rifle shooting OK and then the local benchrest champ notices copper in the barrel and immediately advises solvent treatment. The shooter cleans out and then the rifle won't shoot, at least not for a while.

3) Barrel. The average barrel on the average factory rifle is a piece of shit. With real good barrels it is not so much the smallest group that you can get but how small the worst group is

4) Ammo. Loads can and do add to the above potential problems. Some loads appear to be accurate but in fact a small change in seating depth, a grain of powder or change in primer will cause the load to go off. In other words the load is close to falling off the fence. Try you load with the bullet seated slighty deeper and also out a bit further, a grain up and a grain down. Also try another primer. If your loads mentioned above are good solid loads then those changes won't make a real lot of difference to the accuracy.

4) Barrel

5) Barrel

6) Barrel

Good barrels just seemed to want to shoot. Average and shit barrels seem to want to fight you all the way. Just when you think you have won, they start to play up.

Mike