I'm contemplating a new stock on my M70 classic stainless. The Echols looks great, albeit pricey. Does anyone have any opinions relative to the stock compared to McMillan's or Brown's stock? I know McMillan builds the stock for Echols and I guess I'm wondering if their are real advantages.
Thanks,
Marc

I don't know about the McMillan designs aside from the Legend they do for Echols, I know that the legend has a bit of cast-off at the toe and heel, but can't remember how much. I have an odd face I guess and most stock combs feel a bit high on me, I still found the legend design comfortable.

never shot one but some of the guys here have and I am sure they will tell you how they like it in the field.

Red

McMillan makes these stocks for Echols, and you can only get them from him. It's hard to believe that they're priced too much differently from a McMillan blank of any other pattern. You'll have to have it bedded and painted yourself, preferrably by McMillan, and it's only available for the Model 70 Classic or pre-64.

Advantages? Well, D'Arcy was trained as a stockmaker right out of high school at Colorado School of Trades, he then apprenticed as a stockmaker under the great Jerry Fisher, and he later taught stockmaking at Colorado School of Trades himself. He's been a full-time professional stockmaker and builder of complete custom hunting rifles for his entire adult life, and he's one of the world's greatest craftsmen in terms of custom bolt-guns.

Most other McMillan stocks are copies of factory patterns that were designed by non-professional stockmakers via comittee, and built around mass-production parameters -- in other words, they were built to accomodate the capabilities to stock carving machines at gun factories, and some of this equipment is long-since obsolete, as are many of the patterns McMillan continues to offer. Grace, function, minimization of recoil, artristry, and class being secondary considerations with these factory stock copies. They are production expedients, not classic riflestocks.........

D'Arcy's stock points, balances, and minimizes recoil better than any synthetic stock I've ever owned, and the grip is big enough to accomodate my hand. I don't hunt with anything else.

AD

Thanks for the responses. I'm having Mark Penrod tune up the gun and he suggested the Echols stock. The pictures of the stocks he emailed me are, in my opinion, gorgeous.(Compared to my existing synthetic stocks) If it works out I'll have Mark work on my .416.
Allen your comments on stocks by committee are interesting and upon reflection makes sense.

What are the reasons that you want a composite stock?

If the stock that fits you is available with a lightweight core I would favor that for a 30-06.

The balance seems better to me with a cored stock and they do save weight.

Savage 99,
I've had nice wood on guns and it breaks my heart when they get all dinged up. Up in Alaska I've had warped wood on my stocks. Don't know that it ultimately affected accuracy but the thought that it could was the catalyst for my changing to synthetic. Having said that I've noticed some deep gouges and scratches on my McMillans, but that doesn't seem to bother me as much. I have a beautiful Safari Grade Sako 375 H&H that I'm selling because I don't shoot it.

I have zero experience with any composite or plastic stock, so perhaps someone in the know could answer a couple questions for me.

Are these Echols stocks created with the same materials and production processes as the regular McMillans? The configuration of the master pattern being the difference?

Are all Echols/McMillan stocks the identical configuration and measurements?

GV

Grandview, D'Arcy hand-built and checkered the pattern stock himself, then had McMillan duplicate it in synthetics for him. The materials and composition are the same as McMillan's standard production stock. The dimensions are the same throughout, with the single variable being LOP.

This stock is sort of like, say, a Biesen stock -- it's so well designed that it fits the majority of shooters very well.

For the client that wants a stock painstakingly tailored just for him, the only real alternative is wood.

AD

That stock is on my x-mas list...grins

MD

quote:

For the client that wants a stock painstakingly tailored just for him, the only real alternative is wood.

Ok, but I would try as many composite stocks as I could. Also the LOP can be cut or increased and then painted if necessary. All of the composite stocks that I have tried fit me as long as the LOP is correct.

Another change that can be made is a blind magazine. If this is ok then a substantial weight savings can be made.

Does anyone have a picture of that stock? Whats the turn around time on the order of a stock and what is its price point?

Thanks much.

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by MarcF:
Savage 99,
I've had nice wood on guns and it breaks my heart when they get all dinged up. Up in Alaska I've had warped wood on my stocks. Don't know that it ultimately affected accuracy but the thought that it could was the catalyst for my changing to synthetic. Having said that I've noticed some deep gouges and scratches on my McMillans, but that doesn't seem to bother me as much. I have a beautiful Safari Grade Sako 375 H&H that I'm selling because I don't shoot it.

I feel the same way that you do but I have been dealing with just wood and blue for a long time. Many of the guns here have a strong sentimental value too. But like you I have now bought some rifles with compostite stocks and restocked blued rifles with them too.

For hunting out of the house or camp in VT wood and blue is just fine and they are nice guns.

Turn around time for the Legend varies greatly depending on what D'Arcy has in stock when you call. Last I heard they were $315. But they will need to be painted, bedded, recoil pad and sling swivel studs fitted, and of course bedded.

I have shot many of them and there is no equal in my biased opinion.

Are you sure its $315.00 each? That sounds like a great deal to me.

does anyone know the weight?

Thx

MD

quote:

D'Arcy's stock points, balances, and minimizes recoil better than any synthetic stock I've ever owned, and the grip is big enough to accomodate my hand. I don't hunt with anything else.

AD

I second this wholeheartedly. I have two of them on rifles I've had built recently and they are a considerably better design than other stocks I've used from McMillan and elsewhere - definitely worth the few extra dollars.

From McMillan's webpage for one of their hunting stocks:
COMPLETE INSTALLATION (with Decelerator Pad) 662.00

If you buy a stock from Echols and get a complete instillation from McMillan (which Darcy recommends) you will pay:
Stock blank- 315
Complete installation with glass and pillars bedding, paint, decelerator pad, studs, etc. - 445
Total $760

I'll say again - it is definitely worth the extra 100 bucks. You get a great bedding job and the bolt cut will be made for your action and look a lot better than the drop-in stocks.

Follow this link to have a look.

http://home.comcast.net/~clintewood/onlinestorage/JAlex_compressed.jpg

Warning - looking may cause you to scrape the whole project and buy a Legend rifle, proceed at your own risk.

Clint

Thanks for posting that Clint, lots of factual information in that post.

Is the picture of AD's .338 Win he posted about a year or two back?? I seem to remember that rifle had the brown paint/red pad combination also seen in that picture. Or is this a totally different rifle??

Not wanting to get into a discussion about stock styles, I have always thought the foreend of that stock has all the "grace and elegance" of a baseball bat. But then again, US stocks are often fairly full in the forearm, and I guess it does have its practical advantages, in particular in larger calibers. So purely from an esthetics point of view, I think there are prettier stocks around. But I will be the first to point out, that I have never handled the stock, so maybe it fits really well?? I certainly like the idea of a bit of cast off, normally that makes stocks fit me a lot better.

To defuse any danger of my comments about stock styles causing a mud-slinging contest, let me also quickly add the following. Stock styles are a pretty subjective thing. I think that in general US classic stocks have about the best lines of all stock styles I know of (although I prefer a lighter forearm). But naturally, style and looks take second priority to function and fit when it comes to rifle stocks. Thus, of late I have often ended up with different styles (e.g. Sako copies), because these stocks simply fit me better.

- mike

I see the never ending string of continuous put-downs to anyone else making a firearm product besides Mr. Echols continues.

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
McMillan makes these stocks for Echols, and you can only get them from him. It's hard to believe that they're priced too much differently from a McMillan blank of any other pattern. You'll have to have it bedded and painted yourself, preferrably by McMillan, and it's only available for the Model 70 Classic or pre-64.

Advantages? Well, D'Arcy was trained as a stockmaker right out of high school at Colorado School of Trades, he then apprenticed as a stockmaker under the great Jerry Fisher, and he later taught stockmaking at Colorado School of Trades himself. He's been a full-time professional stockmaker and builder of complete custom hunting rifles for his entire adult life, and he's one of the world's greatest craftsmen in terms of custom bolt-guns.

So far so good.

But, it is apparently totally impossible to point out how good an Echols stock is without some people having to TRASH ALL OTHER STOCKS:

quote:

Most other McMillan stocks are copies of factory patterns that were designed by non-professional stockmakers via comittee, and built around mass-production parameters -- in other words, they were built to accomodate the capabilities to stock carving machines at gun factories, and some of this equipment is long-since obsolete, as are many of the patterns McMillan continues to offer. Grace, function, minimization of recoil, artristry, and class being secondary considerations with these factory stock copies. They are production expedients, not classic riflestocks.........

No doubt at all, ANYTHING else is just laughable and only a clod would even consider buying it. Even ALL the other McMillans have no grace, no function, don't help with recoil, aren't pretty and of course have NO class at all. Might as well realize it folks, it you don't have an Echols, it is just pure trash.

quote:

D'Arcy's stock points, balances, and minimizes recoil better than any synthetic stock I've ever owned, and the grip is big enough to accomodate my hand. I don't hunt with anything else.

AD

Just can't quite get a post made without having to trash every other rifle made. Always that put-down of anyone who chooses to use something besids one of Mr. Echols creations. I would expect nothing else from the above poster.

Or as we say down here, the arrogant loud-mouth blow-harding continues.

Hot Core, time for you to grow up and finally get a grip on your insecurities, wouldn't you say?

I suggest a good therapist..........

AD

quote:

Originally posted by MarcF:
Thanks for the responses. I'm having Mark Penrod tune up the gun and he suggested the Echols stock. The pictures of the stocks he emailed me are, in my opinion, gorgeous.

You may have already received these pics from Mark. Here's the rifle I just received from him using a "Legend" stock he painted in green. Haven't shot it yet but when I took it from the box I picked a spot on a wall, closed my eyes and tossed the rifle to my shoulder. Upon opening, my eye was exactly centered in the scope and the recticule was dead on the spot I picked.

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9411043/m/997103992

Hotcore,

I reread the quote that you took from Allen (Re: Most other McMillan...)and I do see why you might be slightly annoyed-after all, the Mcmillans that you and others might own might be perceived to fit like a glove. Have you ever tried to hold a Legend rifle or one of his stocks?

Just realize that he is sharing his opinion based on his experiences and is probably not intentionally trying to "trash" all other stocks. He has a very strong personal preference for the Legend and the stock and holds D'Arcy in high regards as a riflemaker- nothing wrong with that.

We shouldn't flame anyone for sharing their thoughts on this forum. Heck, we are all entitled to an opinion, however different it may be. With that being said, I will politely say that you do seem to have a problem, time and again, with POLITELY communicating your point. This might be why you end up getting some flack thrown back at you.

Hey Canadian Lefty, Nice rational post until you said:

quote:

is probably not intentionally trying to "trash" all other stocks.

Let me suggest you follow his posts and see if you think the same thing a year from now. Or, just look back in the history of this Board.

The only problem I have with any of ad's posts is his inability to speak well about an obviously well respected GunSmith "without" constantly trashing every other firearm, firearm product and GunSmith in the world. He normally does right well for a few sentences, maybe even a couple of paragraphs, then something happens to him and he goes directly to the Trash Talking mode.

If you look at the extremely rare posts where ad does not do it, you will notice that I don't comment at all about his post.
---

Thank you for your thoughts and I do appreciate them.

quote:

We shouldn't flame anyone for sharing their thoughts on this forum. ...you do seem to have a problem, time and again, with POLITELY communicating your point. This might be why you end up getting some flack thrown back at you.

I see, everyone "except me" shouldn't be flamed for sharing their thoughts. I understand completely.

Let me "politely suggest" that if my thoughts concerning the select portions of ad's posts that I do choose to comment on really bothers you (or anyone else), feel free to just skip right on over my posts.

Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills.

When I stopped working for him May of 2004 the Legend stocks were $315 each. I haven't asked him in the last year if he has raised the price.

I own another Non legend Mcmillan, have owned another and shot several. While they are of sound construction Allen's comments are right on the money.