I have a long-ago sporterized Mauser 98 that I use for a truck gun. Everything is military except sights and stock. The trigger pull is, not surprisingly, heavy, but also with a good deal of creep and 'grittiness'. In looking at things, I see a lot of machining marks on the underside of the receiver tang where the first and second stage bumps of the trigger bear and move as the trigger is pulled. They are not very deep, but quite apparent. It looks to me like this might be a/the reason the pull feels the way it does. Reasonable or possible? Anyone have any thoughts about it?

I've read that Mausers were made to have a harder receiver surface encasing somewhat softer but more ductile interior steel. If those machining marks are a factor in the feel of the pull, would there be any downside to carefully stoning the area, smoothing the machining marks where the trigger stage bumps ride? Would a light stoning be likely to cut through the hard case of the receiver bottom and expose softer steel for accelerated wear?

Any education or advice appreciated.

if you know how to home, without changing angles etc. go to it, and while you're at it put in a bit light spring

akriet, I modified my trigger over 20 years ago and it is so good I have used it for my recent custom 7x57. It has fired many 1000,s or rounds over this time and reliably lets go right on 3 lb with single stage pull. Put a pad of Devcon Steel under the trigger top extension to lift the trigger past its first hump. This keeps all the surface hardening and will not wear as filing the hump or sears will. This will give an imediate improvement without touching the steel and will indicate if further attention is needed.
As butchloc says use a lighter spring or as I did cut a 1/4 turn at a time and try from the mil spring.
I also cut the finger piece off and extended it so it sits at the rear of the trigger guard as well.


Von Gruff.

butchloc and Von Gruff:

Thanks much for the ideas. I'll start small and see how things develop.

quote:

Von Gruff

Good job with the Military trigger.
Thanks for posting pix of what U did.

Don

I've seen Mausers with an extension welded and a screw installed as this photo attempts to show if this is of value.

I kept meaning to do that Vapodog but the devcon worked so well that it never seemed necessary. I had thought there might be some wear or change over the years but to date it is the same as when I did it. The screw in an extension would give the ability to easily change sear contact but I waited till the devcon was nearly set but still pliable and set the trigger in place and gently pushed down till there was just engagement thinking I could file it deeper if necessary but seemed to get it right first time. I was short of $$$ at the time and this was a no cost tryout that worked.

Von Gruff.

In additioin to what the previous posters listed, I would recommend you remove and inspect the trigger and sear pins for scoring and wear; replace if necessary. Some replacement pins have a matte surface and it helps to polish those. That can really help to get a smooth pull. Just polish those trigger hump contact areas and the trigger humps with jewelers rouge. Also smooth and polish the pin saddles in the sear and trigger. Make sure the trigger is not in contact with the trigger guard opening when you pull it.

Working on a trigger is fine but as the above posts have stated don't change the angles of the engagement surfaces. changing springs and adding screws to lighten pull and take up creep.

All that said a Timney is $50 and nothing compares to an after market trigger.
I've done work on 91's and 98's and I've significantly improved the pull weight and take up on those triggers but it is still a far cry from a Timney. And this coming from a guy that has the tools in his garage to build or modify just about anything. I feel it's a waste of good effort and you time would be better spent on some other area that need improving

Personally, I don't like any system which eliminates the primary stage and, consequently, the bulk of the sear engagement. The two stage trigger was designed that way for a reason. Generous sear engagement practically garantees absolute safety and function while the two stage aspect allows for a light take up followed by a crisp, definite, final pull.
I would go ahead and polish the bottom of the receiver as required but, keep in mind, a smooting of the surface is all that is required. The total elimination of marks might not be necessary. In addition, I would hone the contact surfaces of the sear and cocking piece. This is done with a very fine ceramic or hard Arkansas stone and the angles are not changed unless it is necessary to do so. When is it necessary? If the trigger has to cam the striker back too much, the primary stage will be too heavy and the transition less pronounced. This is a fine line though; the contact angle of these surfaces has to be positive to a certain extent so the trigger has to cam the striker back very slightly during the initial stage. When everything is right, the first stage should be light and smooth. In addition (and this is important), if you take up the first stage and then take your finger off the trigger, the trigger should return to it's fully engaged position. If it does not, the contact angle is wrong.
I also change the return spring or shorten it to further lighten the trigger. The amount the spring can be lightened is determined by the requirement described above.
Most of my tuned Mausers have a primary pull of about eight to twelve ounces and a final let-off of around three pounds. My Springfield is fourteen ounces and two and a half pounds. The Springfield trigger is not as positive as the Mausers.
I like the two stage trigger for it's rugged reliability and, when tuning one, I try not to compromise this; it's best feature. I used to be a bit concerned about overtravel until a customer schooled me on this. Now, I don't worry about it and, in fact appreciate it. An old dog can be taught new tricks unless, of course, he's also a stupid dog in which case instructional time is time wasted! Regards, Bill

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
I used to be a bit concerned about overtravel until a customer schooled me on this.

What convinced you that overtravel is unimportant? I'm just curious.

Mostly, it was the realization that overtravel was unnoticable when firing live ammunition in a centerfire rifle.
What the customer told me was that his rapidfire score improved noticeably when he adjusted his triggers so that overtravel was nearly unlimited. He did this following advice from Jim Cloward and other top fullbore competitors. Since all of these guys probably shoot better than I do, I figured the advice was sound.
The theory (and, indeed, the fact of the matter) is that your hold won't be disturbed by your follow through on the trigger if the trigger doesn't hit a stop. This especially in rapid fire. This carries over well to the hunting fields.
When we test a trigger by dry firing it in the shop, we feel things (like trigger movement after the shot) which we don't feel during live fire. If you can feel the trigger come up against the stop after the striker falls, there is the possibilty that this very contact may disturb the rifle prior to the bullet leaving the barrel. So, I now look upon overtravel as my friend. Nonetheless, most customers don't want overtravel because they judge their trigger by how it feels when dry firing.
This whole thing was a reminder to me that no matter how much I know (or think I know) there is going to be someone who knows better. Thanks Raul! Regards, Bill

+1 on everything Bill mentioned. I was pulling shots low in rapid sitting and prone XTC. After discussing it with a more "seasoned" colleague we adjusted the trigger so it wasn't on a hard stop immediately after the break. The low shots were reduced 90%. My Palma/1000 yard rifles are set up the same way. Think about it, if you are squeezing, pulling, jerking the trigger on a moving game animal or stationary target from a less than optimal supported position, all that energy/motion to break the trigger at just the right moment gets transferred immediately to the rifle if the trigger has no overtravel. Having a bit of " lost motion " built into the trigger after the break gives the bullet time to get farther down the tube. Works for me anyway.
Greg

A very interesting theory!

I have several done as per the photo in Vapodogs post and they have always worked fine. Much better in fact than an after market Bold trigger that is an abomination. Dayton Traister and Timney are another story and better.

My boss, Mac Tilton, Trinidad '58, concurs with Mr. Leeper.

It's something we've discussed recently.

Not to mention our ears prick up every time we hear Jim Cloward's name.

This man builds beautiful rifles.

As an aside, Derek Rodgers won the recent F-Open Class Nationals in Sacramento a few weeks ago, using one of our Barnard actions.

And I--yep, flaco--set a new NBRSA 600 Yard Three Target Light Gun Score record in March, also shooting a Barnard.

Go figure.

flaco

Two triggers as follows.

1913 H&H Magnum Mauser



09 Argentine. Work in progress.



Cheers, Chris

As I said before, I don't really like any system which compromises the full sear engagement provided by the two stage trigger. Plainly, many are not bothered by it and are happy to circumvent the safety and reliability provided by Mauser's design.
I truly belive that, if you want to have a single stage trigger, you are better off going to an over-riding sear type trigger; like the Timney. These triggers provide full engagement of the cocking piece by the sear and reduce the load at the sear/trigger contact point.
Modifications such as those shown, rely on a small contact area between the sear and cocking piece. This small contact area bears the full load of the striker spring plus the momentum of the bolt, if it's operated quickly. It's not a good system. Regards, Bill.