Hey guys, I know, I'm throwing you all a curve ball with a pistol question.

with a wwii 1911, are they "combat" ready as is, or is there work that "needs" to be done? are they worth picking up (not in the market right now, just curious) or with the kimbers and others out there they are just collectibles?

Thanks guys.

Red

If one was looking for ultimate reliability in an .45 auto, one wouldn't go 1911.
Special Forces carry a H&K MK23
The MK23 Mod 0 was built as an "offensive" handgun for U.S. special operations forces under USSOCOM.
USSOCOM directs the activities of some of America's most elite military units, including the Navy SEALs, Air Force Special Operations Wing, and the Army Green Berets, Rangers, and Special Operations Aviation.

It exceeds the most stringent USG operational requirements for a combat handgun. The MK23 passed the following tests to ensure it would stand up to rigorous Navy SEAL use:

30,000 round endurance firing test with + P ammunition
Extreme temperatures +73°C/-54°C (+ 160/-60 F)
96 hours saline mist test
Sand, dust and sludge tests
96 hour surf simulation
Harshest drop tests
Accuracy and the highest precision

The MK23 is extremely reliable. In environmental testing, an unlubricated pistol was exposed to two hours of seawater at 66 feet, and in surf, sand, mud, and icing conditions. In firing testing, all pistols averaged 6,000 rounds between stoppage (MRBS).

During testing, MK 23 pistols met the most stringent operational and accuracy requirements ever demanded of a combat handgun.
Endurance testing demonstrated a service life of over 30,000 rounds of +P ammunition. To meet the reliability requirement, the pistol had to demonstrate a minimum of 2,000 mean rounds between stoppages (MRBS) with both M1911 ball and +P ammunition. All pistols exceeded the 2000 MRBS with an average of 6000 MRBS. In more than 450 accuracy test firings from a precision firing fixture at 25 meters, MK 23 pistols far exceeded the government requirement, averaging 1.44 inches, with 65 groups of less than one inch.

Depends on the markings. I'd get a book on collecting them just to get more familiar with which ones are which.
Question is are you looking for a shooter, a shooting piece of history, or just a piece of history? That makes the difference in what you buy and how much it will cost you.

As far as having any work done. The big thing is being sure it wasn't worked on before by someone that didn't know what they are doing. There are points on a 1911 that can be fouled up real quick by someone not knowing what they are doing.
Buy one and have it check out by a reputable pistol smith. Then pretty much leave it as is if it functions fine.

Trax
Now I get to call BS.
One: quit quoting the sales slogans from the web sites.
Two: JSOC did acquire a hand full of these pistols but have since not deployed any of them as they are too frigging heavy, and to sensitive to maintenance issues. The little O rings that support the barrel get lost or wear out to damn fast and the accuracy goes to shit after that.

Three: Most Spec op guys carry the Sig 9mm or believe it or not the 1911A1 or the M9

Four: If you are going to make a recommendation to someone make it a realistic recommendation.
The MK23 is a $3K pistol if you can find a dealer in your area that has one. You could have a better pistol BUILT for less by Les Baer or Wilson. You can BUY a standard model for half out of the box from Kimber, Springfield, or Wilson.

Your colors are showing buddy

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
with a wwii 1911, are they "combat" ready as is, or is there work that "needs" to be done? are they worth picking up (not in the market right now, just curious) or with the kimbers and others out there they are just collectibles?

Thanks guys.

Red

They were considered as "Combat" ready as you could get in the day since that is what they were adopted for. If you want a new, solid, no frills 1911 type pistol representing "the day", you would be hard pressed to beat the Springdfield Armory GI Model.

http://www.springfield-armory....armory.php?version=1

Or, the Mil Spec Model with a lot of the improvements that took place during the era of the Military's use of the 1911.

http://www.springfield-armory....armory.php?version=2

Of course, if I were going into combat today I would wan't my Glock. I would rather not have to spend precious time keeping my own stuff up and running.

yeah you definitely can't beat that price. answers my question though, for a shooter no point in spending the extra that a collector would cost when the new ones are that cheap, if you want a 1911 (I already have a kimber 1911).

Thanks guys.

Red
PS
the m23 isn't even legal for sale in CA, couldn't find it on the roster.

One up for the Springdfield Armory Mil spec. Right out of the box it is a good shooter for the money.

Dago
Yeah forgot you are in the same state as me.
The MK23 is not legal in california due to having a threaded barrel. Our legislator is in fear of you attaching a suppressor. I think they are basing gun laws on Hollywood then anything else

Once again Trax pulls his pants down in front of the world!

I think it's actually worse then that.

When you say WWII era I assume you mean a model manufactured in the 40's. Any mint condition (by that I mean with no excessively worn parts) 1911 would be totally an acceptable firearm to me. I have probably owned well over 100 1911 45ACP's thru the years and really cannot remember ANY that were what I would call 'unreliable' to the point I would not stake my life on them. I tend to prefer the commander size shorter slide model personally. I presently shoot a Kimber top of the line Commander size with BoMar rear sight and find it a pleasure to shoot. It is an all steel gun as I am really not that crazy about aluminum frame 1911's though I have had my share . If I were going strictly for personal protection I would go with a HK P7,Sig/Sauer P229, or Browning HiPower. I actually prefer to shoot 9mm. I have at one time or the other owned all the common and a couple of the uncommon WWII 1911's and found them all to be of comparable quality. When I was building 1911's I preferred Essex frames and Caspian slides and really have no real experience with any other independent slide/frame manufacturers. Other than Colt,Kimber and Military surplus I also have no real experience with any other make 1911 except thru examination,not thru use. There must be something inherently RIGHT about the 1911 design as witness the myriad of manufacturers today who continue to market the 100 year old design. When push comes to shove I would certainly feel well equipped with one.

"Combat Ready"?

Yes, and no, in fact. Is it "good to go" out of the box then yes, provided you've checked the zero on the sights. And that the ejector and extractor function correctly. And that the magazine lips are working properly.

Could it be altered very slightly to make it better? Then "yes".

The "out of the box" 1911A1 would benefit from a slight use of a file to put a slight bevel on the magazine well.

It could also benefit from a slightly more visible set of sights. They don't have to be adjustable just slightly more visible.

In fact the half-moon backsight on the very early 1911s was actually, I found, quicker to acquire in rapid fire than the later flat top backsight that became the standardised fitting after 1915 or thereabouts.

All the rest, if using it with factory 230 grain FMJ ammunition, is probably unnecessary.

Please consider the collector value of any "un-messed with" G.I. M1911 or M1911A1. You can buy a new, high quality handgun for less than the collector value.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kcstott:
Trax
Now I get to call BS.
One: quit quoting the sales slogans from the web sites.
Two: JSOC did acquire a hand full of these pistols but have since not deployed any of them as they are too frigging heavy, and to sensitive to maintenance issues. The little O rings that support the barrel get lost or wear out to damn fast and the accuracy goes to shit after that.

Three: Most Spec op guys carry the Sig 9mm or believe it or not the 1911A1 or the M9

H&K Mk23 was never issued to, or used by, any US SOGs in the field?...are you on drugs?

Four: If you are going to make a recommendation to someone make it a realistic recommendation.
The MK23 is a $3K pistol if you can find a dealer in your area that has one. You could have a better pistol BUILT for less by Les Baer or Wilson. You can BUY a standard model for half out of the box from Kimber, Springfield, or Wilson.

more realistic street prices for H&K MK23 .45cal

http://sgcusa.com/handguns/h-k...ark-23-45-socom.html

http://www.gunrepublic.com/hk-...ecial-ops-45cal-532/

http://www.budsgunshop.com/cat...hp/products_id/15366


Your colors are showing buddy

such as?

So do you care to say whom you know in the Spec ops community??

My whole family is Army Spec ops other then my father who was A USMC Combat engineer. I also live within five miles of NAVSPECWARGRU 1. I personally know former operators and have first hand accounts from them. Not only that I had the opportunity to do some work for an operator due to a referral from this board.

Now I never said they didn't use the weapon in the field. What I said was that JSOC got a few the teams tested them and don't use them as they are too damn heavy and have a very limited use in the field. Deployment means they are in the hands or readily available to spec ops units which they are not.

They are still illegal in California and the OP is a California resident so not a good recommendation

And I stand behind the fact that most side arms used by Spec ops operators is a Sig 9mm no matter what your video game says

I have a 1913 Colt with an ugly bore that still shoots 2.5" groups with ball ammo w/o a hiccup.

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
So do you care to say whom you know in the Spec ops community??

My whole family is Army Spec ops other then my father who was A USMC Combat engineer. I also live within five miles of NAVSPECWARGRU 1. I personally know former operators and have first hand accounts from them. Not only that I had the opportunity to do some work for an operator due to a referral from this board.

Know I never said they didn't use the weapon in the field. What I said was that JSOC got a few the teams tested them and don't use them as they are too damn heavy and have a very limited use in the field. Deployment means they are in the hands or readily available to spec ops units which they are not.

They are still illegal in California and the OP is a California resident so not a good recommendation

And I stand behind the fact that most side arms used by Spec ops operators is a Sig 9mm no matter what your video game says

Its not about how many you know Vs how many I know.

quality of information is more important than quantity of information.

I have a son in Navy Spec Ops. They never used the HK; too heavy and unreliable. Sig 9mm are the issue gun of choice; however, a few still carry the best,a 1911!

Trax, whoever you are, I doubt you ever severed in the Military and it is obvious all you know about Special OPS is what you have read or saw on TV. All you did was quote Wikipedia in your post.

A decorated, disabled Veteran

I'm not primarily a handgunner, and I prefer double action .45 semi-autos for my handguns or revolvers these days because of my declining hand dexterity. And I'm not going to get into the "collectable" quagmire of opinions on this one.

But, I have owned a BUNCH of 1911s of various kinds over the years, including military service ones made by Colt, Ithaca, Remington, GM (IIRC), Singer, and others. I've also owned a bunch of Colt Gold Cups in .45, .38 AMU, and .38 Super. I've also had Commanders in 9m/m.

Up front, I will have to say there has never been even one of the ones I owned which didn't function flawlessly...even the AMU version with its rimmed cartridge and full wadcutter bullets.

Back in the 50's for instance, I never even HEARD of a GI 1911 that wasn't ready to protect its owner's life right out of the box.

Right now I use mainly my SIG for a .45 auto, but personally, I would NEVER be afraid to trust my life to a M1911 in a combat situation...military or civilian.

I might prefer my SIG .45, or my Glock in 10 m/m, but I wouldn't hesitate to rely on a 1911 if that's what I had available and didn't have my own current pistols. Maybe today's 1911's have declined to where some folks wouldn't trust them, but back when I owned them, I sure never saw one.

quote:

Originally posted by A7drvr:
I have a son in Navy Spec Ops. They never used the HK; too heavy and unreliable. Sig 9mm are the issue gun of choice; however, a few still carry the best,a 1911!

AC
My 45 of choice is my HK USP only because it holds 12 rounds of 45 ACP and is a DA w/ decock. That said there is only one brand of the 1911 that I would not trust and thats a Norinco. Other then that I would not hesitate to us any 1911 to defend my life or the life of my family.

Once again Trax is just being himself. I don't think it's TV unless you count video games

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
If one was looking for ultimate reliability in an .45 auto, one wouldn't go 1911.
Special Forces carry a H&K MK23
The MK23 Mod 0 was built as an "offensive" handgun for U.S. special operations forces under USSOCOM.
USSOCOM directs the activities of some of America's most elite military units, including the Navy SEALs, Air Force Special Operations Wing, and the Army Green Berets, Rangers, and Special Operations Aviation.

It exceeds the most stringent USG operational requirements for a combat handgun. The MK23 passed the following tests to ensure it would stand up to rigorous Navy SEAL use:

30,000 round endurance firing test with + P ammunition
Extreme temperatures +73°C/-54°C (+ 160/-60 F)
96 hours saline mist test
Sand, dust and sludge tests
96 hour surf simulation
Harshest drop tests
Accuracy and the highest precision

The MK23 is extremely reliable. In environmental testing, an unlubricated pistol was exposed to two hours of seawater at 66 feet, and in surf, sand, mud, and icing conditions. In firing testing, all pistols averaged 6,000 rounds between stoppage (MRBS).

During testing, MK 23 pistols met the most stringent operational and accuracy requirements ever demanded of a combat handgun.
Endurance testing demonstrated a service life of over 30,000 rounds of +P ammunition. To meet the reliability requirement, the pistol had to demonstrate a minimum of 2,000 mean rounds between stoppages (MRBS) with both M1911 ball and +P ammunition. All pistols exceeded the 2000 MRBS with an average of 6000 MRBS. In more than 450 accuracy test firings from a precision firing fixture at 25 meters, MK 23 pistols far exceeded the government requirement, averaging 1.44 inches, with 65 groups of less than one inch.

Rubbish and nonsense. There are more than a dozen or more that can meet the criteria considering the price point. Then there other designs that will do as well.
...But since he did ask about the 1911, his choices are many. Not seeing combat and the lack of maintenance parts availability, I would say his choices grow exponentially.
OP, due diligence will net you a lot of choices in 1911's to meet your needs.
1911forum.com and 1911pro.com will get you a lot of good info.

Chuck

Well I have a kimber 1911, I was just wondering about this original one, but it sounds like there are a lot of better ways to go if I just want a good carry piece, rather than desecrate an original with no problems.

doesn't mean of course that if a good deal is possible later I won't go for it.

Thanks guys, it sure is an amazing design, 100 years and it's still in current production in it's original version. Just spectacular.

Red

And nearly every other semi auto hand gun built today is a copy of or a variation of the Browning design.
John M Browning was one of a kind
And just to Brag about him a little He is also responsible for the following designs/firearms
More then a handful of Winchester's lever rifles
Win 1897 Pump shot gun
Rem M8
Rem M24 .22 rifle
The auto 5 shot gun
and the Ithica M37
To list a few

So when the US Navy gave an onboard peek of the weapons in active use by their SEALs, they were lying?

No. Like I said they were initially issued in very small numbers then the teams gave them back.
Some teams may actually still have them in their armory. But They are not the standard issue side arm. You said And I quote "If one was looking for ultimate reliability in an .45 auto, one wouldn't go 1911.
Special Forces carry a H&K MK23"

For one how could you ever say the 1911 is NOT reliable?
And the MK 23 is not a standard issue side arm
AND as Much as I love my HK USP 45 the MK23 is a HIGH MAINTENANCE WEAPON. And is therefore not very reliable.
You are now free to go back to COD or HALO or what ever game it is you are playing.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kcstott:
No. Like I said they were initially issued in very small numbers then the teams gave them back.

clearly they liked them enough not to give them all back.

Some teams may actually still have them in their armory.

Not may, actually do have them,and do use them.

You said And I quote "If one was looking for ultimate reliability in an .45 auto, one wouldn't go 1911.
Special Forces carry a H&K MK23"


Correct, I stated the 1911 was not the best choice for the "ultimate in reliability in an .45auto".
So whats your point..?


For one how could you ever say the 1911 is NOT reliable?

you hallucinating?..Where did I ever say the 1911 was not reliable?.. [ill ask you again , are you on drugs??]
I simply said its not the most reliable .45 auto [reliability being a relative thing]


And the MK 23 is not a standard issue side arm

and neither is the 1911,.. why would that be?

AND as Much as I love my HK USP 45 the MK23 is a HIGH MAINTENANCE WEAPON. And is therefore not very reliable.

but considered reliable enough/purposeful enough to be maintained in armories for active use by some SOGs.
...but obviously you've convinced yourself that you know more about the worthiness of the weapon than the SEALs do.
For all the people you claim to know in Spec Ops, you still seem to be kept in the dark about even the most simple things concerning them.

Trax
Please tell me and everyone else what evidence you have that makes the MK23 the "best choice" for a combat pistol in terms of reliability alone

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
Trax
Please tell me and everyone else what evidence you have that makes the MK23 the "best choice" for a combat pistol in terms of reliability alone

Wherever did I say the MK23 was the best choice? However, I did say the 1911 was NOT the best choice in terms of ultimate reliability in an .45 auto.

anyway, I've got a better question.
Why have SEALs been recently issued with a HK45 variant instead of a 1911 variant?

Larry Vickers and Ken hackathorn interview:HK45 Vs 1911


Todd: How would you compare the HK45 to a top-quality custom 1911?

Ken: You can buy an HK45, send it to Bowie and get the mods that Larry suggests — though with my hand size I don’t need them — and get Heinie sights. You’ve got a pistol one half or even one third the price of a top 1911 pistol today that is more reliable and every bit as accurate. For most anybody I can imagine if you said you need a pistol to stake your life on and you’re going to be someplace you can’t run to a pistolsmith every time you need it, if your choice is between an HK45 and a 1911 and you don’t take the HK45, you’re ****’ing brain dead.

Larry: Yeah, I agree 100%. Ken is spot on. For the average guy, it’s a far better choice. The 1911 is an enthusiast’s pistols. In order to keep that gun running you have to, it’s not optional, you have to become your own armorer to a degree. You have to be able to diagnose and fix minor problems on an end user level. If you’re not willing to sign up for that, frankly you have no business running a 1911 for anything other than occasional recreational shooting. If you’re going to put yourself in harm’s way with that gun and you’re not willing to sign up for that, then you need to avoid it. The HK45 is clearly the better choice. For the overwhelming number of people who feel like they need to have a .45 the only two real choices are the M&P45 and the HK45 and push come to shove if I’ve got to trust my life to one or the other, it would be the HK45.

We both are in agreement that if you had to go to Afghanistan for a year with just a handful of spare parts, what do you have confidence in getting the job done? The HK45. That would be my first choice. I think it is the most bomb-proof service pistol on the market. And we just saw SEAL Team Six go with the HK45 Compact for those reasons.

I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt the HK45 would not exist without me and Ken. I’m not saying we cured cancer with the HK45. What we did is just kind of show HK this is the obvious next step in a .45 caliber service pistol.



Larry Vickers is a decorated US Army Special Forces veteran and national pistol champion. Mr. Vickers has nearly two decades of special operations experience (1 SFOD-Delta), much of which was spent as his unit’s Primary Firearms Instructor. In addition to his special operations accomplishments, his competitive shooting has yielded a 10th and 9th place finish in the 1993 and 1994 USPSA Limited Nationals as well as a 1st place finish in CDP class at the 2001 IDPA Mid-Winter Nationals at Smith & Wesson. Mr. Vickers is a founding member of IDPA. In addition to being a highly experienced operator and national pistol champion, Mr. Vickers is also one of the premier 1911 pistolsmiths in the country and his work has been featured in several firearms publications and on the cover of American Handgunner. In addition to all this, Mr. Vickers has served as a consultant and technical expert to the firearms industry. Mr. Vickers is featured on two new firearms, tactics, and accessories focused T.V. shows called Tactical Impact and Tactical Arms.

Ken Hackathorn has served as a US Army Special Forces Small Arms Instructor, Gunsite Instructor, and NRA Police Firearms Instructor. He is currently an FBI Certified Firearms Instructor, Certified Deputy Sheriff with Washington County SO, Ohio, and a SRT member and Special Response Team trainer. Ken has trained US Military Special Operations forces, Marine FAST and SOTG units and is a contract small arms trainer to FBI SWAT and HRT. Ken has provided training to Federal, State, and local law enforcement agencies and been active in small arms training for the past 25 years. He has written firearms related material for Guns & Ammo, Combat Handguns, Soldier Of Fortune, and currently American Handgunner and contributed to at least six other gun/shooting journals. Ken was also a founding member of IPSC and IDPA.

Trax
This thread is not about your HK favorites.
If you want an HK thread go start one of your own.

You'll believe anything in print???


As per your question.
The criteria for a military side arm that eliminates the 1911 is basically as follows.

Weapon must be double action/ single action with a decock lever.
Must have an external manual operated safety.

The 1911 doesn't meat those requirements and that is the only reason they don't use a 1911.

The old excuse was it needed a nato cartridge. That excuse has since been dispelled.

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
You'll believe anything in print???


As per your question.
The criteria for a military side arm that eliminates the 1911 is basically as follows.

Weapon must be double action/ single action with a decock lever.
Must have an external manual operated safety.

The 1911 doesn't meat those requirements and that is the only reason they don't use a 1911.

The old excuse was it needed a nato cartridge. That excuse has since been dispelled.

So we should believe what you type here over what typed somewhere else and of higher repute?

Or what you type??? With your cut and paste. But everyone knows what you read on the internet should be chased by a heavy dose of salt.

Just made the ignore list

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kcstott:
Or what you type??? With you cut and paste. But everyone knows what you read on the internet should be chased by a heavy dose of salt.


so which is it you are saying:

a. Vickers and Hackathorn with all their combined experience, are wrong?
b. They have been misquoted?
c. The whole interview is total BS and never took place?

Considering your not a gunsmith, have no FFL and do not work directly on any firearms for clients,..where have you drawn your experience from?
But you tell us a Spec Ops operator with highly trusted & experienced smiths already available to him, somehow asked YOU to do some work?

Just made the ignore list

now your spoiling my fUn!

Trax, the HK45 is not the same gun as the MK23. It is even more obvious your only knowledge of military firearms is what you learn googling.

P.S. I know Larry

quote:

Originally posted by Abob:
Trax, the HK45 is not the same gun as the MK23. It is even more obvious your only knowledge of military firearms is what you learn googling.

P.S. I know Larry

The fact remains the 1911 is not the most reliable 45 auto.[ which is what I was quoted and attacked for saying earlier].
If you do indeed know Larry, confirm with him if the interview is a true account of his honest experienced opinion.
and be kind enough to come back and inform KCSTOTT of the fact.

A new HK45c averages around $1000.


Todd: How would you compare the HK45 to a top-quality custom 1911?

Ken: You can buy an HK45, send it to Bowie and get the mods that Larry suggests — though with my hand size I don’t need them — and get Heinie sights. You’ve got a pistol one half or even one third the price of a top 1911 pistol today that is more reliable and every bit as accurate. For most anybody I can imagine if you said you need a pistol to stake your life on and you’re going to be someplace you can’t run to a pistolsmith every time you need it, if your choice is between an HK45 and a 1911 and you don’t take the HK45, you’re ****’ing brain dead.

Larry: Yeah, I agree 100%. Ken is spot on. For the average guy, it’s a far better choice. The 1911 is an enthusiast’s pistols. In order to keep that gun running you have to, it’s not optional, you have to become your own armorer to a degree. You have to be able to diagnose and fix minor problems on an end user level. If you’re not willing to sign up for that, frankly you have no business running a 1911 for anything other than occasional recreational shooting. If you’re going to put yourself in harm’s way with that gun and you’re not willing to sign up for that, then you need to avoid it. The HK45 is clearly the better choice. For the overwhelming number of people who feel like they need to have a .45 the only two real choices are the M&P45 and the HK45 and push come to shove if I’ve got to trust my life to one or the other, it would be the HK45.

We both are in agreement that if you had to go to Afghanistan for a year with just a handful of spare parts, what do you have confidence in getting the job done? The HK45. That would be my first choice. I think it is the most bomb-proof service pistol on the market. And we just saw SEAL Team Six go with the HK45 Compact for those reasons.

I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt the HK45 would not exist without me and Ken. I’m not saying we cured cancer with the HK45. What we did is just kind of show HK this is the obvious next step in a .45 caliber service pistol.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kcstott:
Or what you type??? With you cut and paste. But everyone knows what you read on the internet should be chased by a heavy dose of salt.


so which is it you are saying:

a. Vickers and Hackathorn with all their combined experience, are wrong?
b. They have been misquoted?
c. The whole interview is total BS and never took place?

Considering your not a gunsmith, have no FFL and do not work directly on any firearms for clients,..where have you drawn your experience from?
But you tell us a Spec Ops operator with highly trusted & experienced smiths already available to him, somehow asked YOU to do some work?

Just made the ignore list

now your spoiling my fUn!

OK I'll bite
For one I don't know these guys from Jack. Two It's a gun rag and An online gun rag at that, and Should therefore be taken lightly.
These guy are employed by HnK you think they'll have something good to say about that pistol?

Also, You have no clue what I do or who I do work for. Again you just quote the web site. Which is nothing more then things I want to general public to.

A person in the military can't take there personal weapons to the unit armor. It does happen but it's outside of regulations.
So yes I did in fact work on a solider's rifle. A soldier that is in a Spec ops unit.

Thing is what you need to realize is that a Unit armor might have vast amounts of experience on the rifles they work on BUT NOTHING MORE.
They will not be able to tell you which way to stack the gas rings on a Browning A5 to go from target to magnum loads.
They will not be trained to weld on a bolt handle, Machine scope bases from solid, Tig weld pits in a receiver, Fit a recoil pad, Blue a rifle, Anodize an aluminum part, Reassemble a rifle brought in in a bag, or Design and fabricate anything a customer asks for.
All of which I can and have done for paying customers.
I placed the Non gunsmith label on myself due to California's laws and the Federal Law as well.
The FFL is coming though. I just need to have a meeting with my city's Planning Dept.
The city I live in frowns on in home workshops.

Now I'm going Back to Mexico for some overtime

Trax
How many rounds have you put through your HK 45?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kcstott:
OK I'll bite
For one I don't know these guys from Jack. Two It's a gun rag and An online gun rag at that, and Should therefore be taken lightly.

But some forum members do personally know the guy[s] interviewed. They haven't yet said to take the information in the article/interview lightly.

These guy are employed by HnK you think they'll have something good to say about that pistol?

They seem like rather reputable well experienced guys, who have worked in or with the military quite a number of years.
You saying they would strongly recommend a HK45 over a 1911 [for reliability] if they didn't really mean it?, considering soldiers lives would be at risk.

Also, You have no clue what I do or who I do work for. Again you just quote the web site. Which is nothing more then things I want to general public to.

Well Im only going by how you choose to represent yourself on your website. If your now saying its vague or deceptive, then I guess your correct when you say one must take some of what one reads on the net with a grain of salt.

A person in the military can't take there personal weapons to the unit armor. It does happen but it's outside of regulations.
So yes I did in fact work on a solider's rifle. A soldier that is in a Spec ops unit.
Thing is what you need to realize is that a Unit armor might have vast amounts of experience on the rifles they work on BUT NOTHING MORE.


So I gather you have no experience working on any Spec Ops groups weapons/firearms.


They will not be able to tell you which way to stack the gas rings on a Browning A5 to go from target to magnum loads.
They will not be trained to weld on a bolt handle, Machine scope bases from solid, Tig weld pits in a receiver, Fit a recoil pad, Blue a rifle, Anodize an aluminum part, Reassemble a rifle brought in in a bag, or Design and fabricate anything a customer asks for.
All of which I can and have done for paying customers.

Your saying the smiths/developmental/experimental techies that Spec Ops groups have access to are not capable of such work or other specialised work required?

I placed the Non gunsmith label on myself due to California's laws and the Federal Law as well.
The FFL is coming though. I just need to have a meeting with my city's Planning Dept.
The city I live in frowns on in home workshops.

Now I'm going Back to Mexico for some overtime
Good luck