I recently bought some walnut lumber with the intent of carving a few stocks from blanks. I have worked with a couple of semi-inlet stocks before, but never laid one out from scratch. My question is about cast on and off, as well as toe in or out. For a right handed guy of average proportions, what is a good rule of thumb for getting a good fit? What kind of variables should one consider? (i.e. if you have narrow shoulders increase/decrease a little...) I know how to measure for LOP, and I have a couple examples in the safe to compare to, but I'm kind of clueless on how to get the best fit otherwise.

What style of stock will you be making? What caliber? Most of my stocks are made without cast on or cast off. However I like a little more drop at the cheek piece because of glasses. I have made stocks in modern styles with cast off and cheek piece off set at the front area. The angle of the cheek piece is over the center line at the front to keep recoil down on the face. Shooting styles very so it is hard to answer this question without see the customer. Some others may have a better answer, I don't at this time.

Planning on an American classic style, not much drop for using a scope, straight comb, cheekpiece, 30-06 class deer and elk rifle. I don't think any of the others I have have any significant cast or toe. I can't even envision in my mind how it would feel one way or the other. Straight almost seems like the best way to go, but I was just wondering if I could customize the fit a little better by giving it something.

Les's request for information is right on. Making a stock with cast requires the knowledge of the client's physical stature and shooting style. Since your in Washington State there is at least one member of the ACGG close at hand to help you in this determination. Most of this group will help if you ask nicely. These members are spread out all over WA state.

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Originally posted by Dennis Earl Smith:
Since your in Washington State there is at least one member of the ACGG close at hand to help you in this determination. Most of this group will help if you ask nicely.

Well, any good stockers within an hour of Monroe? Or any that come out the WAC shows in Monroe? I'd pay your time for a little stock fitting tutorial. (or buy lunch, or sweep your shop floor...) Please?

If you are tall, with long arms like me (and right handed) you need 3/8" to 5/8" cast off and moderate toe out. A well endowed female needs a little more of both measurements.

Get a hold of a Sako A-V rifle from the mid 1980's. That will get you pretty close to what you need.

If you have a short, heavily muscled neck like Sylvester Stallone think classic style stock; just go easier on the cast off/toe out

Bruce Farman...Bremerton
Al Lind....Lakewood
Duane Wiebe....Tacoma
Chick Worthing...Wenatchee
Larry Peters....Odessa
Ed LaPour....Bremerton
Jay McCammet....Seattle
Jim Dubell....Colville
Addresses and phone numbers are listed in www.acgg.org members listing. I don't get that far north unless I go see my sister in BC.

Thanks Dennis. None of these guys are particularly close by unfortunately. If any of them chime in I would love get some input, but at this point I don't think I will make a big effort to look anybody up for the following reasons:

1. I am not difficult to fit. I am about as average and normal as can be. (5'10", 175, medium build, 16x33 dress shirt size...)

2. I wouldn't be planning to toss a high dollar stock making job towards any ACGG members as incentive to help me. (although as stated I would compensate for time.)

3. I don't shoot a whole lot, don't shoot competitively, and don't have any real complaints about any of the stocks I currently have.

4. I don't really have a lot of potential cast-off to work with on this project anyhow. I didn't buy an advertised "stock blank", just a plain piece of 2" thick lumber. With the 1 3/4" pad I'm using as a template there just isn't enough meat to go too far in either direction.

What I was really looking for in this post is some generic advice from those in the know along the lines of: "most right handers will benefit from a little cast off..." "...I make all my stocks with 1/4" and this works great for me..." "...I'm a lefty and I use 1/8" cast on for all mine..." "...narrow shouldered guys should use 1/4" of toe in..." or "...Ya can't go wrong if you give it a little..."

You know, that sort of thing... just a little open dialog on the subject. Along the lines of what Lawndart was offering, but I am neither tall, nor a well endowed female! (much to the chagrin of others...)

If I am in the 95th percentile, and a straight stock will work just fine for 95% of all shooters, then that is what I will make. This is my first opportunity to lay one out from scratch and I thought I should maximize my chances to get it just the way I want it. That's all for now I guess.

Ok; what you are really asking for is a crash course in gun fitting. Well, here is the long and short of it. Make the stock so that when your stock goes to your shoulder you are looking down the middle of the sights. That really is not meant to be flippant or smart. That really is just how it is done. There is no set formula I have learned for this process. It really is trial and error until experience with many, many gunstocking projects helps you determine the best starting stock dimension for the client. David Westbrook has a great book on this entire process and his pictures are really great.

Since you gave a verbal description of your physical stature...1/4" cast on will get you started and your toe out should be about 3/8". A standard small recoil pad is about 1 5/8" wide. A medium/large pad is about 1 7/8" wide. If you lay the stock pattern out so that your center line is to the right of center blank, you will quickly run out of usable toe out options. Two inches is enough to make a gunstock without a cheekpiece. It gets ticklish when you try to put cast on/off into the equation. One of your first priorities will be to determine just how much wood you will leave on the outside of the gunstock action and barrel. This helps determine centerline options. This also will tell you just how much cast you will be able to have. Start with the guesstimate of 1/4" heel and 1/4 toe out. DO NOT shape out your buttstock until all of your inletting is done. Shape out the forend, action body, face side of the stock, and then your cast off. Shape slowly and carefully making sure your sight picture is getting better and better as you go. Your center line of course is carried front to back of the stock blank and you will use it as a reference point for the buttplate placement.

Bolt action rifles have many differnt shapes. A Jerry Fisher Mauser blue print I bought from Brownell's says the drop at the comb should be 5/8" below center line of the bore and the heel is about 7/8" below said point. My rifle stocks have less drop than that as a rule because of scope mounting options clients request. History plays a great part in gunstock making and some of the best stockmakers of the past have written great words of wisdom on how to make a gunstock. I am just one who has learned from the past masters and continue to learn from others doing stocking today.

I know where Monroe is....I had a cousin living at the Monroe Correctional Facility for many years. I also know that an 90 minute drive south will get you more hands on knowledge than just reading this will do. It is evident you have skills and want to learn. Try Al Lind. He helped me. Asking for help is not a crime. How do you think I learned all I know how to do? Yes, some form of thank you is appreciated...discuss what is right with the guy you contact. There is no easy way to just tell you how to do it correctly in wording alone. You have to be guided by someone who has been there for the best results. For a kid from Kennewick, I feel I did more than just OK. As I said before, I am not trying to be flippant or smart....I hope this has helped.

There is a way to increase the amount of wood available for cast of for a right handed shooter on a 2 inch thick blank. If a bench planer is available then the table is set for a 1/4 inch cut and the cheek piece side of the butt end of the blank is layed on the planer's front table with the wrist point at the edge of the forward table and forend toward the rear.By making one cutting pass the forend is now 1/4 inch narrower at the tip than the rest of the blank. Centre a mark on the top of the forend tip then use a marking guage to scribe that line back to the wrist, put a straight edge on the scribe mark and follow it to the butt plate end and it can be seen that a extra 1/4 inch is available for cast if it is required. The forend paralells can be taken from the cheekpiece side and it is still a standard inletting procedure. Contrary to what has been said I am reasonable large in the chest for my height - arm length and short neck so cast off and toe out helps me not to need to stretch for the comb of the rifle. Toe out helps me with keeping the cant from my hold.It is also why the 5/8 - 7/8 comb - heel drop from bore centre line works for me with aperture and scope sights.



Von Gruff.

Thanks guys, that's pretty much what I was looking for!