Ruger/Savage Vs Rem700/Model 70/Wby Mark V

It appears to me that on these various forums there are far less complaints about the Ruger and Savage than is the case for Rem 700, Model 70 and Weatherby Mark V. Has anyone else noticed this or is it my imagination?

Mike

Ok I'll give it a shot.

Savage folks. These folks are not whiners at all. They know it is a butt ugly gun but it shoots good and gets the job done. ( From the few I have seen there is no way something that ugly should shoot that good.) Its like guys that are married to a fat chicks and don't complain. Its cause the love'in still good.

Ruger folks. These guys are caught between ugly and an allegiance with Bill Ruger. Maybe it was something he said or the way he ran his company, but they fell a kinship. And never complain. It's knda unamerican not to own at least one Ruger.

Remington folks. These guys are the utmost tinkerers . Nothing can be left alone, so this leaves a lot for them to complain about when they screw things up. Like a hot rodder with a new bottle of nitros. When the motor blows it was the builders fault.

Winchester folks. These guys yearn for the days of old. Nothing is as good as it used to be or should be. And they never say a slur towards their beloved pre64. It was as perfect as a factory rifle could be. (Except it would bind up, was to short and would burn your eyes out if you had a case head separation.)

Ahh The Weatherby folks. These are the guys that pay a million dollars for a dingy cause the sales man said it was a yacht. When they get the over priced POS home and spend some time with it all they can think is " man what have I done". I mean you would cry too if you just dropped a grand on a rifle that shot a pattern and not a group.

Now before ya'll start on me, I personally have never met a rifle that is not welcome in my safe. At least for a little while.

Blue tick,

I like your post very funny , I need to ask which category do you place the cz lovers in

I am awaiting with baited breath...sought of like waiting for the results of a psychology test

Bluetick-I did find your post both funny and amusing.I also found it contained a lot of truth.

From what I've seen, the Savage fans want a reasonably priced, and generally very accurate off-the-shelf rifle that doesn't need a whole lot of tweeking in order to achieve small groups. No other perspective is important to them. The overwhelming appeal here is budget-accuracy.

The Remington guys buy into that rifle's reputation for great action strength, out-of-the-box accuracy, and favor with the benchrest fraternity. These same guys might also have an eye for eventually having the action converted into a custom-built tackdriver at some point in time, although most won't take it that far.

Ruger fans do tend to hold the founder of that company in high regard as a contemporary icon of modern innovation with a reverence for classical design features. The M-77 Mark II is a classically-style rifle with some appealing modern features (like that great scopmounting system and Mauser-type action), and yet it sells for a reasonable price. Is it any wonder then that it sells?

The Weatherby guys like the Weatherby mystique, plus the well-made and innovative Mark V action. The fact that Weatherby's worked hard to move away from the older "California glitter baby" image and into the realm of serious, performance-oriented hunting rifles hasn't hurt anything either.

The Model 70 guys (that's my group) see that rifle as a design that combines the best of the old with the best of the new in an action that is ultra-rugged, that can be made ultra-reliable, yet still serve as the platform for an extremely accurate rifle. The simple, rugged trigger system, striker-blocking three-position safety, and the ability to get the bolt apart without tools or gimmick proceedures are major selling points to us. Even the most ardent Model 70 fans, such as myself, tend to cuss certain out-of-the-box specimens, but we keep buying them anyway, knowing that the action can be turned into something extraordinary in the hands of the right riflesmith.

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i think it is a case of having a beautiful girlfriend vs a good one. [ you can put in here whatever you like].
beauty:
looks good riding in the truck but when she bitches cause her new shoes are gonna' get muddy so you gotta carry her, well that aint' right. but you do it and then bitch to your buddies.
good woman:
costs a third of the above, cleans your fish and washes your truck before you go to camp. makes you a breakfast at 4 in the am before a days hunt and makes your luch to boot.
that is the answer to your question.
woofer

I fall into allen's 700 rem tinkerer group. I buy them with the understanding that they will ALL eventually be trued and squared and fitted with aftermarket triggers and firing pins/springs. That being said,..I have yet to own one that doesn't shoot 3/4moa or less right out of the box with correct ammo.

Savage is accurate and price range is admirable.

weatherby is super strong but often lacking in groups,..but how small does the group have to be to kill a moose.

win 70,...I don'y have any,..I like rems

I was amused by blueticks response but I will give my own

Savage - bought by someone that wants only a serviceable gun at minimum price.

Ruger-a traditional action at a lower price.

Remington-good accuracy and the basis for building a custom rifle

Winchester-bought because of the reputation of the pre 64

Weatherby mark v-purchased as a status symbol because it wears the weatherby name not because of accuracy since many much lower priced guns equal or surpass it in that reguard

Allen said it all from my perspective, over all we wish for the old days when we just had to restock a rifle, but maybe those day never were. The stuff produced from the top custom shops in this day have never been equalized in the past, it is that good today.

Many Thanks

HBH

Ok PC you asked for it. I didn't want leave out the Blaser owners either.

The CZ is a mixed bag of complainers and satisfied customers. That tells me it�s probably the best deal going. I guess I will become a CZ complainer with this. They are a bolt shroud safety away from perfection. Kinda like a flat chested girlfriend. Completely functional as is. But could be better.

Blaser guys. They should probably fall in the class of none complainers along with Ruger and Savage. Its simple really they have enough money that they don�t complain. I mean if you have enough money to buy a Blaser you don�t have a gripe in the world, right. I did see a video once of a guy getting charged by an elephant, he short stroked his Blaser and it jammed. I�m sure he cried though. They were tears of joy when the PH shot the beast right before it made him a permanent part of the Serengeti.

I find Wby and Savage owners are similar in that they don't have any deires to muck about with the rifle. Of course of the 5 rifles mentioned the Savage and the Wby represent the price extremes. Just like in politics as people move to the extreme right or the extreme left they meet each other on their way around the circle

99% of the rifles I have owned have been on Rem 700, M70, Wby and Sako.

Weatherbys (and I fall into this group) are often owned in two phases. Phase one is when you are young (or you can be old but new to guns) have the money to spend and get Wbys. Phase 1 of Wby ownership always follows some ownership of M70 or Rem 700. Of course they do not live up to the hype. So then the Rem 700 and M70s take over and this time with modifications being the key point.

Phase 2 of Wby ownership occurs after you get sick of all the stuffing about and return to the Wby but in the second phase of ownership the rifles are not hampered by a belief that they are faultless.

PC and CZs

PC, big bore CZ owners, that is the 375 and 416 boys, have a strong desire to visit H&H or Westley Richards. The CZ relates to the H&H/Westley Richards like the Rem 700 does to the real nice customised accuracy gun.

If CZ had some of the Wby marketing people then they would throw the bolt shroud into the bin, which I think Bluetick mentioned.

Mike

You blokes read me like a book, I am always looking at the Holland website and the searcy website always knowing it's never to be....then I grab my cz .375 out of the safe look at those flip up express sites and think can Holland, W.Richards & Rigby really do it that much better I mean for a while there Rigby even used the cz 602

Ah well at least my flat chested cz's tits are real...I mean Holland, Richards & Rigby would have to have to be silicone jobs

I own then all expect the wby never found one at the right price yet. Some day somebody well offer me a free market one I can't pass up. I enjoy them all I do find the savages shoot great but I would not have one for a big game rifle. I hate gun locks so the newer remingtons are out. I find that the Rugers are just plain tough and with a little work make great rifles. The Win's are ok they shoot and with a little work they can be great rifles too control feed only.. Those of you that have to have Hollands or other high end rifles just have more money to spend then me. They are good rifles but can not do any thing that a worked over Ruger can't do plus the rugers are just plain tougher. So spend your dollars on what you want and enjoy them all.

Once again I am amazed at the parrochial statements coming out of some of the "usual suspects." It's easy to spot the Remington at-all-costs crowd out there. Saying that Model 70 buyers buy them solely because of the pre-64 mystique ( apparently that is ALL the new 70s have) is absurd. I happen to own quite a few pre-64s and some of the new "Classic" line winnies and they all shoot well within 1" MOA. I don't have and won't own push-feed 70s because they are too much like a Remington, definetly a cheaper cut of beef. Hint: Winchester stopped making the pre-64 because it was costlier to make given the technology available at the time and built a cheaper action...just like the 700. That is why Winchester returned to the older action it was a better engineered product.

As far as Weatherbys are concerned, I like them too and shows that I am not a CRF at all costs fanatic. I'll be the first to admit that I was "bitten" by the Weatherby allure as a kid and own several. Again ALL are sub-MOA shooters right "out of the box" and I don't have to worry about handles falling off and safeties that "might" work. AS far as accuracy is concerned, I don't doubt that the Savages are very accurate rifles, but at least to me, there is a LOT more to a hunting rifle than just accuracy. So what if my Weatherby/Model 70 "only" shoots .5-1" groups when the Savages shoot better. Allen hit the nail on the head, there are a lot of components when it comes to a good hunting rifle and accuracy although important, is not all-encompassing. jorge

Jorge, I'm amazed at how many guys really don't understand the Model 70 action in the first place. The underlying theme always seems to be that somehow the M70 can't quite cut it in terms of accuracy (preoccupied with the benchrest icon), yet Model 70-based rifles have won the 1000 yd. Wimbleton event more than all others put together. Go figure!

I used to buy into this monkey-hear/monkey repeat 'benchrest' stuff myself back in the late '80s. Then I found that if you blueprint a Model 70 action properly, install a good barrel, bed properly, install a scope properly (all the stuff you'd do to a Remington!) the Model 70 would shoot just as well as any Remington-based rifle, and the action was functionally better from every standpoint of consideration, and the receiver much stiffer. Who wants a washer for a recoil lug anyway?

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Hmmm.........where would you'all catagorize a guy that prefers the push-feed M-70 ??.........(grin)

G-slinger: I'd call him a "guy who prefers push-feed 70s," that's all!....Just as long as you don't tell me that I prefer pre-64 Model 70s or Weatherbys just for the status symbol. jorge

SD, personally I like the PF Model 70 action a lot, and I've owned quite a number of them myself. It's a good, solid action that feeds very well. It got a lot better after Winchester went back to the original bolt sleeve and cocking piece and eliminated that stupid pinned-on bolt sleeve cap and red cocking indicator in 1981-82.

I've experienced two failures-to-extract with PF Model 70s. One was a .300 Win. Mag. that I owned around 1980. The other was a .375 H&H that another shooter had at our local rifle club (same time period). The good news is, since the PF Model 70 is very easy to work on, the extractor is very easy to replace (no gunsmith required), and in the case of that .300 Win. Mag., a new extractor cured its ills in just a couple of minutes. In fairness, such failures are extremely rare with this action, and guys like Jack Atcheson, Sr. and James Mellon have used the PF M70 literally around the world.

I just bought a PF M70 in .223 Remington (mid-80s) with the idea of tearing it apart for the action. I'm then going to have it mated to a #4 contour Hart barrel that I have stored away for a custom varmint rifle in .223 Rem. That way, the action will work exactly the same way that my hunting rifles do, which will make it's operation second-nature.

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allen........how does the .223 feed in the push M-70 ? I've not had my hands on one of those.....in the bigger calibers I've never seen one that wouldn't feed slick .


jorge.......I wouldn't tell you that.........well......maybe you might be a status hound if you want a Weatherby..........hahaha.........

SD, up to this point, all of my .223s (I'm a real fan of that cartridge!) have been Remington 700s. This is my first Model 70 in .223, and I must say, it feeds a heck of a lot better than my Model 700s in .223 ever did, and the magazine fills with less fuss as well. Other than basic receiver blueprinting, it doesn't appear as though anything will have to be modified in the feeding/magazine department at all.

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