Alright, im about 2 weeks away from sending my M98 action off to Mcgowen to start up the 500AR build. I got a few stock questions that need to be addressed.

I LOVE the look of the high end exotic wood stocks. Also i have seen a few of them that are pretty affordable and are within my budget. My budget currently sits at around $350 for a profiled stock unfinished. My final goal with the wood would be some simple grip and forearm checkering. Nothing elaborate...Then just a simple semi-gloss finish to cap it off.

NOW! After all that I want to do to this stock what can i expect to pay for all the extra work along with fitting my barreled action into the wood? This is my first rifle build and this rifle WILL be a hunting rifle, it will get used every single year and see plenty of time at the range. Which has me thinking I should go with something simpler and less cost to prevent my heart from being broken when I drop the rifle or it gets a nick or scratch from a random tree limb or an jerk-off friend. So I was looking as possible laminated wood stocks like a simple profile and unfishined boyd's stock for like $70. How hard is fitting on a laminated wood stock? Should i seek someone very professional when dealing with them? Or should I just go with some form of synthetic and avoid the whole wood process?

synthetic is going to be MUCH cheaper. I don't know about laminated wood stocks, but generally you will spend the same having a wood stock inletted and finished for you rifle. Local shops may do it a sight cheaper, but I know the range I've seen here is 2-5k! I know, scary. look at it this way then.

if you find a smith that will take your stock, inlet it to your rifle, bed it, crossbolt it, finish it and checker it for 2k, that's on top of whatever you spent for the wood. Meaning the 70 dollar piece versus the 300 dollar piece only saved you 230 bucks. the majority of your money is in the labor.

I have seen some of our gunsmiths on here work posted that looks very good, but I don't know their prices (by the way guys, it would be so excellent when seeing work posted to see a $xxx amount behind it so we know what it cost. though I know many clients wouldn't want to have that out there, I'm always curious) so you may find something less than 2k.

whatever the price, MORE than the synthetic.

Red

That is NOT an easy question. A lot depends on what you mean by "profiled". You can buy a semi-inlet from someone like Great American off their discount list and have a good picture of what it will look like before final shaping, sanding and inleting. You MIGHT be able to get a good one for about what you have to spend. The checkering alone will be $250 for a simple point pattern by someone good.

I have gone to buying a good blank and having it sent out to have someone make a semi-inlet for me. It has worked for me, but again, you have to be very patient on looking for the right blank at a reasonable price and then you still need to spend $120-$250 to have it carved. Even on the cheap, a solid stock will be more than your $350. I have never worked with Boyd's so I can not speak for their laminates. Unfortunately, the same is true for synthetics. I do the wood myself and just like the feeling of accomplishment. It is worth the extra $$$ to me.

When you are talking wood $350 isn't even a down payment. Here are some figures.

Wood blank: $200-$2,500
Inletting by machine: $125-$250
Hand Checkering basic: $300-$350
Grip cap in the white: $30
Recoil pad: $35
Sling swivel inlet for stock: $20

Soup to nuts finished stock from the blank: $2,500 to $3,500 plus the cost of wood

Stock machine inletted and then finished: $1,200 to $3,000 plus the cost of wood.

Bottom line it is easy to spend $1,000 even if you are doing a lot of the work and spending $4,000 including wood is easy with most top stock makers.

I have put many M98 actions in Boyds' stocks. It doesn't take a lot of effort. I like their product. If you use a laminate stock don't try to checker it. It's birch and too brittle to checker, it chips. I would be happy to inlet it for you for less than the shipping costs, about $50 as long as it is one of their VIP stocks. If you get one of their finished VIP stocks, that will be done as well. If you want it pillar bedded that would be another $75. Most synthetic stocks will require some fitting as well since you won't have a standard configuration (barrel channel).

I like laminate or synthetic for a working rifle. I too don't like to scratch my fine stocks. I have two stocks for some of my guns so I can hunt with them in comfort....Tom

Alright, so my best bet is going to be getting the barreled action finished up and in my hands. Then tackle the furniture aspect...

I guess I will canx the thought of having a nice wood stock. That is entirely out of my price range...I had no idea wood would cost me that much to get it fitted and finished for me.

Here is the laminated stock I would want to put on the rifle since im not going to be going with a nice wood piece that would require alot of work.
http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/...USER-p/610-273-a.htm

So im guessing this is going to be my cheapest option right? All I would need to have done is have the barreled action fitted in the wood? How much is something like this going to put me back?

http://www.gunstocks.com/galle...g2_imageViewsIndex=2

That is a stock similar to what i was originally looking at starting with. Then having a simple checking job done on the grip and forearm. Then having a gloss finish applied. But after $240 for the stock then another $2,000 for work!!! Jesus!!!

You need to get out more!

Cokes are no longer a nickel.

quote:

Originally posted by Brando:
Alright, so my best bet is going to be getting the barreled action finished up and in my hands. Then tackle the furniture aspect...

I guess I will canx the thought of having a nice wood stock. That is entirely out of my price range...I had no idea wood would cost me that much to get it fitted and finished for me.

Here is the laminated stock I would want to put on the rifle since im not going to be going with a nice wood piece that would require alot of work.
http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/...USER-p/610-273-a.htm

So im guessing this is going to be my cheapest option right? All I would need to have done is have the barreled action fitted in the wood? How much is something like this going to put me back?

I've used Boyd's JRS laminate on several Mausers. They're economical, functional, and not bad looking at all. All parties have been happy with the finished product.

quote:

Originally posted by Brando:
Alright, so my best bet is going to be getting the barreled action finished up and in my hands. Then tackle the furniture aspect...

I guess I will canx the thought of having a nice wood stock. That is entirely out of my price range...I had no idea wood would cost me that much to get it fitted and finished for me.

Here is the laminated stock I would want to put on the rifle since im not going to be going with a nice wood piece that would require alot of work.
http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/...USER-p/610-273-a.htm

So im guessing this is going to be my cheapest option right? All I would need to have done is have the barreled action fitted in the wood? How much is something like this going to put me back?

I already told you what I would do it for but you should do it yourself. It's not hard and with a little patience it will look great. You also might want to look at Accurate Innovations.com, great stocks, great fit and reasonable prices.......Tom

quote:

Originally posted by Brando:
http://www.gunstocks.com/galle...g2_imageViewsIndex=2

That is a stock similar to what i was originally looking at starting with. Then having a simple checking job done on the grip and forearm. Then having a gloss finish applied. But after $240 for the stock then another $2,000 for work!!! Jesus!!!

I hear you. You'd think that a fine rifle stock could be made for about $1,000. In reality $1,000 is a lot of money for a stick of wood. The problem is that we are used to most labor intensive jobs being farmed out to overseas workers or computers cutting the hand finishing hours to next to nothing.

Think of it this way, there are stocks in the $100 to $300 range and then there are stocks that cost $3,000+. There are only Kia stocks and a Bentley stocks. The problem is most guys just want a nice Ford stock or maybe a BMW stock and there are just no options.

Figure out how to make good quality wood stock for $750 to $1250 and you could sell a ton of them IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Brando:
http://www.gunstocks.com/galle...g2_imageViewsIndex=2

That is a stock similar to what i was originally looking at starting with. Then having a simple checking job done on the grip and forearm. Then having a gloss finish applied. But after $240 for the stock then another $2,000 for work!!! Jesus!!!

I think one could end up with a decent "Ford" or "BMW" working man's custom stock for less than a grand starting with a stock like this. A simple checkering job isn't $2000. Do a little work yourself inletting and bedding the action, sand and oil finish it, then send it out for checkering.

Or order yourself a set of files and learn to checker! You won't have an guild rifle, but it might end up looking pretty sharp and you won't be a sweat grenade taking it into the field. I would do that over a synthetic or laminate.

I picked up a pretty darn nice looking semi-inlet for $140 on ebay, and another older Fajen at a gunshow for $100. They are both still very much works in progress, but I am confident they will look pretty nice when all is said and done. I will post pictures eventually...

Im a pretty handy guy and I can learn about anything...

I guess my main concern is I want to get the gun out of my mind and into something that goes BOOM, then watch a 400lb black bear do 3 kart wheels...

SO I guess what I will do is find me a cheap-o stock to get my barreled action into a shooting rifle that I can use. Then I will look harder into getting a nice piece of wood done the way I think one should be done.

Guess its time to start researching stock finishing and such and learn how to do some checkering myself... Yay, another hobbie...

quote:

Originally posted by Brando:
Im a pretty handy guy and I can learn about anything...

I guess my main concern is I want to get the gun out of my mind and into something that goes BOOM, then watch a 400lb black bear do 3 kart wheels...

SO I guess what I will do is find me a cheap-o stock to get my barreled action into a shooting rifle that I can use. Then I will look harder into getting a nice piece of wood done the way I think one should be done.

Guess its time to start researching stock finishing and such and learn how to do some checkering myself... Yay, another hobbie...

That's the spirit! Sweat equity might not get you a Bentley, but if you are handy as you say you will have pride in the end results. I will take an honest working man's sporterized military rifle over an off the shelf factory rifle almost any day. Somebody started a thread on this over on the medium bore forum which has a few nice examples mixed in with some horror stories.

Here are a few photos of some reasonably priced stocks and the kind of work I think any decent handy man ought to be capable of turning out. Nothing too special, but certainly nothing to be ashamed of. (in my humble opinion...)

Geez, some of these pictures are huge!!Sorry about the size! It really makes my checkering look like crap... Can I resize them with any basic photo software in Windows? I don't have Adobe or any fancy programs...

Here is a before shot of a Swede Carbine dropped into a Bishop stock that I inherited from my Father in Law:

The stock was very clubby as I received it. Here is it after slimming, shortening, and reshaping the grip area. I also removed the white line spacers, made a mortice in the loading gate area, and put a real wood tip in place of the plastic. There is a lot of extra meat in some of these stocks, and I have seen lots that were ripe for a face lift. Pictured below the Swede is the $140 ebay semi-inlet which I have fitted with a recoil pad, ebony tip, and skeleton grip cap. Lots of shaping still to go on this one. It has very nice grain through the butt, although the forearm gets a little too swirly.

Here's another shot of the Swede with the beginnings of a 24LPI checkering pattern on the grip.

Here's the $140 ebay semi-inlet showing the grip cap and wetted down a bit to show the grain.

Here's what the same stock looked like in the ad.

Here's the $100 gunshow Fajen as purchased. i have since shortened the pull and replaced the hard plastic pad with a Decelerator, rasped down the hump, added a grip cap, plus shortened the forearm and replaced the lighter colored wood tip with a darker exotic. Same kind I used on the Swede... I can't remember what it is now, not ebony.

And finally, here is my first attempt at checkering on a $90 cherry semi-inlet. Not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. Lots of wavy lines, over-runs, and flat diamonds, but it is functional and it is mine. (P.S. you will all be happy to know that I am ditching the tacky "ace of spades" pattern on all future projects!) I am still working on cleaning it up a bit, pointing up the diamonds, etc.

I hoped some of this helped. Again, my hobby work certainly isn't up to professional standards, but I am happy overall and would take home-baked real wood like this over a synthetic or laminate any day. God bless the well heeled African hunters who commission the works of art that mere mortals like me can only drool over, but most average Joes don't have that kind of coin in the budget for a once a year deer rifle. I mainly wanted to show that while not exhibition grade, one can get a nicely figured stock for a hunting rifle without dropping $500 plus on a blank and paying a top builder another $2000 to shape and finish it. Don't let the naysayers and deep pocket patrons of the arts discourage you! The most challenging part is definitely checkering and if you do end up with a fairly nice piece of wood that is the first thing I would consider farming out.

Helped alot!!!

BTW, you can resize photos using Microsoft Paint.

Open up paint normally. Goto File and select Open. Select the photo you want to resize. once the photo loads into the Paint program go up to the top tool bar and select Image, on the drop down menu select resize/skew. A window will open and then just type in the percentages you want to cut the photo down. Its automatically started at 100%, so if you change the numbers to 50, it will cut the photo size in half. then if this is the settings you want to keep, just go up to file and select save. and it will save the image this way.

If you want to save this smaller image but keep the larger one as well select save as and save it as a new file with a new name of course.

Also, there is a wood shop here on base that I have access and the freedom to use at my own discretion. So I guess now is as good as time as ever to experiment and try and turn out a decent rifle stock.

Anyone got a good link to some tools I can purchase for a decent price and them ship it to an APO address?

I just spoke with some people over here and I can order gun stocks and have them shipped here and use the wood shop as I seem fit to do so. They aslo have a painting/stain room with a large assortment of finishes free to use...

I would go to Brownell's or Midway and do a search on gunsmith tools. All you need for the inleting are basic scrapers, files and chisels. I actually made a lot of mine myself just because I "needed" something different. For example, I sharpened a brake adjustment tool that had a screwdriver type handle on it. It is already curved and makes a great scraper for tight angles. I also sharpened an old hacksaw blade and can make the end in any shape I need...round, square, pointed. I just epoxied wood handles to them.

I got a LOT of help here from these fine fellows. The best advice was from Customstox. He asked me what my hurry was and told me to have some patience.

Hey Brando,

I don't know how much free time you have, but will throw this out there. (as somebody that did at one point start down the route of "learning to make stocks")

it all takes time, learning to do it well takes lots of time, and things to practice on. Checkering is not nearly as easy as it looks, and unless you have some sort of experience that will help, or are somehow naturally gifted, you aren't going to do a halfway good job the first piece you pickup. I know because I tried. and I'm good with my hands. I definitely would not practice on a stock that was staying on the rifle. If you have access to lots of stocks to practice on, then no worries, the tools for checkering aren't very expensive. But do practice on stocks, because checkering on flat pieces of wood isn't the same. and checkering on other woods than hard walnut (claro some stockmakers complain about because it often isn't hard enough for real quality high lpi checkering) won't be good practice either.

Inletting you are more likely to get right without practice, if you are very patient and don't use a dremel for the final fitting. but as all stockmakers say, the last 10% is 90% of the work. it also takes lots of stuff, a cradle/vise, and various hand tools. Scrapers you can actually make if decent with metal work and have access to simple things to make it. (I made a couple out of hacksaw blades and wrapped the handles in duct tape, worked well for what I was trying).

I'm not trying to discourage you, just giving you something to think about if you're going to be wanting to use this gun soon.

Now, after reading the thread the other day I was surfing around comparing prices. there is a gunsmith recommended highly on the forum, Tip Burns, I found his sight, his price for inlet finish and bed a semi-inletted stock is 750 bucks. (by the way, I LOVE gunsmiths having websites where I can find out about them, and their work, AND having pricelists. I wish they all did).

by the way, you can always checker the stock down the road. You actually finish a stock before checkering it, then after checkering refinish the area that was checkered, but you don't checker then finish. so you could always have that done down the road when you get better if you wanted to do it yourself.

Red

Thanks Dago...

As for my free time...well, I have LOTS...There isnt really much to do here but get drunk and chase Philipino women. Neither of which I do too much of...

There is a wood shop here on base I have free access to use as much as I want. I have already cleared the possible hassles of making or working on a stock here on base. And as long as I keep it with the wood only there will be no problems.

The problem im having right now is finding a set of checkering tools and things of this nature and having them shipped here to my APO address. Midway will not ship to an APO period, they will not ship anything to one. As will most firearms suppliers of any kind. So this is my hurdle as of right now...

I have been looking at some videos floating around on youtube and shows a few people in action doing the checkering. As for the inletting I do have some practice at this. I installed a new stock on my SKS and had to do quite a bit of trimming to make it fit correctly. So I know the basic steps here and also learned a few tricks from a smith I know in WV. which consisted of using red lipstick on the barreled action to find the points that still needed trimmed.

After I get the tools of the trade squared away and in my hands. I need to find somewhere that will ship me CHEAP stocks to practice and develop my skill. Im sure I can do it, I have some wood working background and I produced some pretty high quality pieces from Shop class in high school. Some of them was a lawn chair I designed and I ended up selling about 100 of them over the span of my high school years. Made quite a bit of gas money that way. My mother still has 2 of them and refuses to get rid of them. She has had 7 people offer her $250 a piece or more for them. I guess its a mother thing for her to keep them.

So im still on the hunt for a few items and suppliers that can help me out.

Ditto what Dago Red said about practicing on the curved surface of a real stock. Far more difficult to hold a straight line, and it is very easy to humble yourself quickly! BTW, Thanks for the tip on sizing photos...

Shoot me a PM if you had difficulty getting checkering tools shipped and I may be willing to help. Also, a local gunshop has a barrel full of old take-off factory stocks. I think most are Remington. I will see what they want for one the next time I'm there and will let you know.

Also, Richards Microfit seems to offer decent wood at a bargain price, particularly in their factory seconds section. I've never bought one so i can't vouch for them personally. I heard the inletting is a bit loose and they take a while to ship, but you may want to check them out. A downside is that you can't see photos of the actual stock you are getting.

I have contacted a couple sellers on Ebay about shipping me the rifle stocks and checkering tools.

Found a couple really good deals that will not put me out of much money and give me some good practice. lots of older stocks for sale for like $5-25 a pop and they are already finished. Just need a little TLC...

That would be a great way to start. Be sure to post updates and photos!

Got some tools on the way! $15 purchase on Ebay...HAH!

just waiting on a reply from the guy with a few stocks I want to practice on. Hell they actually fit pretty well known rifles and if they turn out good I could probably re-sell them back to someone for way cheaper than hving there redone or a new one purchased!

ANyone got suggestions for reading material on this subject? I have searched around a found a few on Amazon, but they all claim to be the best of the best and show this and that. I hate buying something that turns out is a crap book someone typed up in there garage after building a rifle stock out of a piece of pine wood they found under there grandpas's moonshine stash...

Well, Monty Kennedy's book is frequently cited as a classic reference. Interesting to thumb through, but the how-to section is actually pretty brief. Most of the pages are photos and patterns of different styles, along with some cheesy carving. An awful lot of the patterns are pretty dated and tacky. I wouldn't buy the book.

Checkering really isn't that complicated, a few good tips and a LOT of practice are what is needed. Then decide what style you like, draw the borders, lay out the master lines and go for it.

If you PM me your email address I will shoot you an old post I saved in MS Word for reference.

Brando,
PM me.