I'm removing the barrel from Mauser 1909. I know that it's a good idea to leave the stripped bolt in the receiver to prevent damaging the front ring.
What torque can safely be applied to the bolts on the action wrench?

I never have measured the torque while tightening my action wrench bolts. They don't need to be very tight--just enough to keep the wrench flat against the bottom of the action--I'd guess that isn't over 20ft/lbs or so.

I also never heard of anyone keeping a bolt in the receiver while twisting off a barrel; what's that for?

I have never left the bolt in. If you actually put enough pressure on the front ring to crush it down, then it would lock the bolt in there anyway, giving you a really cool one piece action . There is space between the closed bolt and action, so leaving it in would not give added support.

I don't know what torque will be taken by the bolts, and depends on your set up. I originally used a connecting rod from a 307 Pontiac, and I bannanna'd those bolts with no probelm. Connecting rod bolts are pretty heavy duty too. I made a new action wrench last year and went with 3/8 (I think-maybe 7/16) grade 8 bolts. Slightly different geometry with this wrench, but same principal as before. I have not hurt these boltes yet, and have really cranked on them while debarreling Mausers recently.

What type of wrench are you using? If it has proper geometry, then you won't crush the front ring or damage the bolts. If you can let us know what you are using we can give you some more definite answers. But in general I would say you are ok

I got that advice from, I believe, Malm a few years ago. Keeps the wrench from crushing the front ring.

The wrench is from Hulston Gun, nicely made but while trying to pull the barrel last night it left two markes on the receiver ring. Thye can be polished out but the barrel isn't out yet. Have to get the dead blow hammer and cheater bar.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc_Stokeld:
I have never left the bolt in. If you actually put enough pressure on the front ring to crush it down, then it would lock the bolt in there anyway, giving you a really cool one piece action . There is space between the closed bolt and action, so leaving it in would not give added support.

That Malm, he was one sharp dude!

Sometimes you have to be creative when dealing with problem child receivers, so there have been instances, early on, where I've left the stripped bolt in place to prevent the action from collapsing from the beating I was preparing to inflict. Now if I think I will have a problem, I prefer to turn a custom fitted mandrel to provide this support, but if you are careful, and you have a good selection of shim material to fill the gap between the bolt and the receiver, you can make do with the bolt. The shim material around the bolt head will help aid in getting the bolt back out if she does move. Good luck!

I never thought of shimming up the gap. THat is a good idea and I may just try that next time I have a sure enough problem child where evrything else has failed

You probably already know this, but in addition to an action wrench and barrel vise the #1 thing you need when removing old mauser barrels is a can of Kroil. Don't bother with any other penetrating oils. There's some sort of voodo in Kroil.

Weagle

Be careful leaving the bolt in. A "gunsmith" I knew did that with a Siamese Mauser and he sheared off the end of the extractor in the barrel extractor groove. The same could happen in the Yugo M48s.

Cruising at a gun show once I picked up a for sale K98a receiver. It had been removed with one of the U bolt action wrenches. The top of the receiver had been dented across the top about 1/2 inch long by about .060 deep by the U bolt.

I've had Kroil on the barrel/ring seam for about a week but it's time for the full soak in a piece of 2" PVC tube.

I have removed the extractor from the bolt and also took the sharp corners off the wrench's interior. They were leaving "shiny" marks on the ring.

We'll see what appes after a week in Kroil.

Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Recoil Rob:
I have removed the extractor from the bolt and also took the sharp corners off the wrench's interior. They were leaving "shiny" marks on the ring.

Rob

Why are you soaking the action, have you tried to pull it already?

Place your barrel vise as close to the receiver as you can. Use masking tape, or, a business card between the action wrench and the receiver to help protect the finish. Don't strain yourself, but tighten the action wrench firmly so it doesn't distort or slip off the flat.

Use a cushioned "dead blow" hammer to whack the receiver around the threaded portion of the front ring if for nothing more than to send it a clear message that you won't be playing games.

If you have to, use the same "dead blow" hammer to give the action wrench a sharp little jolt. You shouldn't need a 3' extension. A little pre-heat, and possibly a little sharp whack with the hammer on the wrench should get it moving. Make sure the barrel is clamped tight, and use powder sugar. That's what I use and it works fantastic. It won't scratch, or, mar the finish, plus it washes off easily under a hot tap.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:

Use a cushioned "dead blow" hammer to whack the receiver around the threaded portion of the front ring if for nothing more than to send it a clear message that you won't be playing games.

Powdered sugar--that's a sweet idea! I've been using my wife's perfumed powder but customers seem to look at me kinda funny; I wonder if they make that stuff in a Hoppes #9 scent?

quote:

Originally posted by Toomany Tools:
Powdered sugar--that's a sweet idea! I've been using my wife's perfumed powder but customers seem to look at me kinda funny; I wonder if they make that stuff in a Hoppes #9 scent?

The question is "Where" have you been using your wifes perfumed powder?

I have tried once and that's when I marred the ring. I'll get the dead blw and try as you said. I haven't had a problem with the barrel slipping yet, just not enoough leverage to get it turning.

Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Recoil Rob:
I have tried once and that's when I marred the ring. I'll get the dead blw and try as you said. I haven't had a problem with the barrel slipping yet, just not enoough leverage to get it turning.

Rob

I don't think you'll gain anything soaking the entire action. Like I said, put the barrel vise as close to the receiver as possible, and if you decide to give the action wrench a little nudge with the dead blow hammer, apply the blow to the handle, as close to the receiver as you can, while bearing down on the wrench with your free hand. Good luck!

OK, what type of Dead Blow hammer are we talking about here? I don;t mind spending money on tools, I'm a tool nut but I went to Home depot today and the only thing they had was a 42oz. Stanley of bright orange plastic filled with lead shot and it was over $30. Is this the tool I need or something else?

Thanks, Rob

That'll do!

You can get about the same thing for less than half that price at--dare I say it?--Harbor Freight.

Years ago I made me some ditchable SCUBA weights (9 lbs each) using 2" Black ABS pipe filled with lead shot and with a cap glued to each end. With a little air space to give the shot some room to move, it would work almost perfect as a dead blow device. Don't get caught with it in your truck... It won't look good!

I have a lot of lead shot and plenty of PVC which is similar to ABS. wouldn't the plastic crack on the reciever, lead shot all over the place?

PVC pipe may be too brittle for that application. ABS is a lot more flexible.

You can beat the crap out of ABS and it will hold where PVC would collapse. I think ABS cement even smells better.

quote:

Originally posted by Toomany Tools:
Powdered sugar--that's a sweet idea! I've been using my wife's perfumed powder but customers seem to look at me kinda funny; I wonder if they make that stuff in a Hoppes #9 scent?

I use powdered Rosin in the barrel vise which is just a hunk of pine bored the right size & split and held in a 20T press. I put a piece of hard flexible plastic under the u-bolt or a piece of sheet lead & have never marred a receiver or a barrel that I can recall.

Malm, I mean Westpac, could it be you've been smelling too much of that glue?

I just use a regular 5 pd hammer. I alway give the Kroil 2 to 3 days to work and I've never had to tap the handle more than a time or 2.

Weagle

Well, the action ended up soaking in the kroil for 3 weeks, I set everything up tonight with the powdered sugar, and started hitting with the dead blow but no movement. I put on a cheater and leaned on it about 3 feet out and she gave in, and came off.

Thanks for all the good advice, now, what advice can you offer topull the barrel on an Enfield P17- the barrel breech has a good taper to it.


Thanks, Rob

If you do not intend to re-use the barrel, I would set it up in the lather and turn a portion near the receiver to a diameter to closely match the bushings I use in my barrel vise. While you're at it, take a thin parting tool and make a cut close to the receiver to relieve some of the barrel/receiver tension.

Here is a picture of my action wrench for a Rem 700 and barrel vise.

That looks like a 12 lb long handled beater in the background. Are you tryiing to tell us something? I wonder, is it kept near the barrel vise for a reason? The head looks like it has done its share of demolition.

Roger

That action wrench is similar to the one I use on Mausers, that one has a flat bottom where I put a piece of 3/8 steel flat for the screws to tighten to. That definitly is not a 12 pounder and I used it almost exclusivly on the Mausers. It got too hard to handle and I got a new shiny 12 pounder for Christmas last year. A good sharp rap with it will loosen them if the barrel vise doesn't slip.

Second generation action wrench [for me] has a cut out so that the section of the large ring radius on top that is over [lines up with] a flat section on the bottom of the receiver [for radial compression] also lines up with the plane of the bolts. That way the bolts do not take a side load [making them hard to turn] and the receiver does not take a shear load [causing it to get scratched, bluing rubbed off, or wrench or shim metal rubbed on].
I was not smart enough to plan this. After I made it from round stock, I had to figure out why it worked better than my generation one action wrenches.

Malm is a smart guy, but I cannot imagine crushing a receiver with the action wrench. Unlike the barrel vise, it does not have to be all that tight.

And I sure don't leave a bolt in there. Like ireload2's gunsmith, my Alzheimer's could wreck a good extractor, maybe not in a Mauser with a flat breech, but I do other rifles.

To me that looks like a recipe for disaster. That top V-block affair looks like it would put a "pinch" on the receiver ring if you needed to put a whole bunch of pressure on the wrench to dislodge the barrel.

Kobe,

Yes there is an amplification of force, but so far, no disasters.
When a V block pushes on a cylindrical object, the force against each side of the V is square root of 2 greater than the force pushing the round into the V block. That is why V blocks are used to clamp round things.

The "V" and the flat wrench design I got from MacFarland's old book on gunsmithing, but it is the same kind of thing that Brownells sells now 50 years later:


I have taken the barrels of ~75 1903 Turks and ~20 VZ 24s.

Those barrels typically have rusted threads.

1) Barrel vise hardened 1/2-13 bolts torqued to 600 foot pounds to pinch the barrel and 1.5" Aluminum bushings both cleaned with Alcohol. Bolts have been breaking, and on one vise I have switched to 7/8-14 hardened threaded rod. The barrel vise is bolted to a 600 pound steel bench.
2) Action wrench bolt finger tight
3) A few drops of Kroil in the barrel thread joint
4) 1,000 foot pounds static torque on action-barrel joint
5) Hit the wrench with the sledge hammer.

Works every time.

As a side note, everyone I show this process with and without the Kroil [the barrel will not come off without it], immediately buys some Kroil. Having me strip down a Mauser would make a great infomercial for Kroil.

1000 foot pounds means that my fat ass is sitting on a 3' moment arm [3' of leverage for those of you in Rio Linda] .
Effectively moving a 10 pound action wrench takes a hammer that weighs MORE than 10 pounds. They don't sell hammers that big at the hardware store, so I use a 20# piece of steel round stock. I strike right next to the V block for maximum shock:


I have never structurally damaged a receiver getting it off.
My lousy workmanship does that later

Once I get the barrel off, I clean out the rust with a small wire wheel in the receiver and a big wire wheel on the barrel, and lube the barrel threads with grease. Then when I take the barrel off again it comes off with the same 100 foot pounds that I put it on. If I were worried about the next guy 80 years from now, I would use anti -seize, with a vapor pressure lower than grease.