Sorry for the bad pic. This is the only one that I have. I'll try to get a few more tomorrow.

I was hoping someone could tell me what caliber this was originally chambered for. I take it these are proof marks?




Sadly, someone has rebarreled it using an 1917 Enfield barrel. Nice job but I need another .30-06 like I need, well you know. It might be fun to try to restore, if you will, this fine little rifle.

Thanks.

Ok, I see from the 9.3x62 post that the original sights were regulated for a 225 grain jacketed bullet, and was proofed for smokeless powder.

Any idea how to tell what caliber it was originally chambered for.

I couldn't get a smaller screwdriver out of the garage so I can't disasemble it tonight to look for additional markings.

My Mauser has the caliber marking on the bottom of the barrel- 7.92, and it was a .318" 8x57 Mauser. Otherwise known as a 8x57J. The proof marks will tell you where it was made, and what load was used.

The markings indicate that is was made just before WWI or slightly after. 225 gr would most likely be an 8mm bullet.

My guess is 8x57, but if it was rebarreled it may have been an 8x60, which is harder to find brass for. I doubt that you will find cartridge marks on the receiver, but anything is possible with these sporters.

8x60 huh? That would be a nice excuse to rebarrel. With family visiting I won't be able to really get at it to disassemble & look for any other markings.

The rear of the receiver ring was notched much like some of the South American's that were converted to .30-06. Also, without really delving into the innards it appears that the feed ramp and magazine have had some mods done to them.

Anyone know if these mods are common on 8x60's? When was the 8x68 introduced?

Thanks for the help given what little info I've provided.

The 8x68 came out just before WWII, but these older actions were questionable for use with magnum cartridges.

If your rifle was made around WWI it would have probably been 8x57. After the war it would have been rechambered to 8x60 to keep it legal (if it was still in Germany).

A lot these that were brought to the US ended up being rechambered to 8mm-06, since 8x60 was hard to find until recently. I would be curious to find out why your's was rebarreled using a military barrel.

Kurt,

I would like to know why it was rebarreled too. I would really have liked to have gotten this thing in its original state. Still, the reabrrel job was good except that there was a small amount of filler added to the barrel channel just in front of the receiver where the 1917 barel was slightly smaller. 8x60 sounds like a likely candidate for a project. As is , I've got way to many .30-06's and 8x57's.

Thanks again.

Well, I finally had time to snap a few pics. It's overcast out and the indoor lighting is bad so these are the best I could do today.









These are the only other markings on the rifle.



And here is the oddest thing. Notice that there is not front wall in the magwell.



It looks to me like it was made this way and not just altered when it was rebarreled.

This thing points better than any other rifle I've ever shouldered. The sights are perfectly aligned when I snap it to my shoulder.

8 x 60 is an outstanding round if you can take the time and slightly higher expewnse to gear up for reloading it. It will not disappoint you.

Is that a standard length action?

I no expert but thats a military bottom metal and trigger. Id guess a military action thats been rebarreled a couple times and the mag modified from its last chambering that must of been a longer cartrige.

I would say that the magazine and stock were opened up for the .30-06 cartridge. An 8x60, and even the 8mm-06, will fit in a standard 98 magazine just fine.

As a side note, that Lyman 35 sight is worth more than the rifle.

If that receiver sight is a model that fits on the ejector box assembly, I think they are very valuable...

quote:

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Originally posted by z1r:
Kurt,

I would like to know why it was rebarreled too. I would really have liked to have gotten this thing in its original state. Still, the reabrrel job was good except that there was a small amount of filler added to the barrel channel just in front of the receiver where the 1917 barel was slightly smaller. 8x60 sounds like a likely candidate for a project. As is , I've got way to many .30-06's and 8x57's.

Thanks again.

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8X60 is a great round. If you find anyone who has a reamer for 8X60S, please let me know! I have an old 8X60RS double that has one chamber a couple thousandths of an inch deeper than the other, and I'd like to get 'em "evened out". I have been trying to locate an 8X60S reamer for years, and no-one here or even in Germany seems to still have one! Most 8X60's were made by merely rechambering the 8X57mm military barrels. This round was created to "demilitarize" all the civilian-owned 8X57JS rifles after WWI, as a part of the Treaty of Versailles. German civilians were prohibited from owning "military caliber" rifles after WWI, so the 8X60 was designed to make the conversion simple and quick. I have made 8x60JS ammo out of .30/'06 cases by necking them up, trimming to 59mm, and sizing in an 8X60JS FL die. Worked perfectly. In a strong action, the 8X60 will drive a 200-grain Nosler partition bullet over 2650 FPS.

Also, I note that your receiver has the typical German engraving they used put on a lot of converted military Mausers. Please have this receiver hardness tested before you use it! I've seen some that they softened up for engraving and they forgot to re-harden! No kidding! It MAY need re-heat treating to be useable.

quote:

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Originally posted by El Deguello:
8X60 is a great round. If you find anyone who has a reamer for 8X60S, please let me know! I have an old 8X60RS double that has one chamber a couple thousandths of an inch deeper than the other, and I'd like to get 'em "evened out". I have been trying to locate an 8X60S reamer for years, and no-one here or even in Germany seems to still have one!

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Sisk Rifles lists three reamers in 8X60 but none of them show as 8X60S. They are 8X60 Mag, 8X60 R Guedes, and 8X60 Rimmed. When I asked them about rechambering a rifle I was looking at using one of their reamers, they indicated that they only build complete rifles and referred me elsewhere. You have probably already looked at their list and not found what you needed.

The 8x60 Mag is probably the 8x60S, as that name was used by Mannlicher-Schoenauer and Sako.

However, I think that list is more of a dream sheet. This seems to be the list of actual reamers he uses.

Somehow I don't think that a smith who puts plastic stocks on sightless Remingtons is going to have an 8x60 reamer on hand.

quote:

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However, I think that list is more of a dream sheet. This seems to be the list of actual reamers he uses.

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You may very well be right. It does seem weird to have two different lists.

quote:

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Originally posted by Charles_Helm:

quote:

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Originally posted by El Deguello:
8X60 is a great round. If you find anyone who has a reamer for 8X60S, please let me know! I have an old 8X60RS double that has one chamber a couple thousandths of an inch deeper than the other, and I'd like to get 'em "evened out". I have been trying to locate an 8X60S reamer for years, and no-one here or even in Germany seems to still have one!

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http://www.siskguns.com/ lists http://www.siskguns.com/Chamber_Reamers.htm in 8X60 but none of them show as 8X60S. They are 8X60 Mag, 8X60 R Guedes, and 8X60 Rimmed. When I asked them about rechambering a rifle I was looking at using one of their reamers, they indicated that they only build complete rifles and referred me elsewhere. You have probably already looked at their list and not found what you needed.

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Charles: No, I didn't check with Sisk. I checked with reamer makers/rental places, Paul Jaeger, who made the rings for my claw-mount bases, New England Custom Guns, and J.P. Sauer, the rifle's maker. Thanks for the info. Yes, I expect the 8X60 Magnum they talk about is the rimless (S) version. However, my chambers are 8X60RS, the rimmed case. But the rim recess is already cut, so I think a regular 8X60S reamer could be used to slightly deepen the shallow chamber to match the deeper one, since I don't have to worry about the cut for the rim of the cases.

To whom did Sisk refer you? Did you find anyone who had a reamer beside Sisk? In view of their policy, I suppose contacting them would not do much good?????

quote:

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Originally posted by KurtC:
The 8x60 Mag is probably the 8x60S, as that name was used by Mannlicher-Schoenauer and Sako.

However, I think that list is more of a dream sheet. http://www.siskguns.com/SISK%20RIFLES%20-%20Reamer%20List.htm seems to be the list of actual reamers he uses.

Somehow I don't think that a smith who puts plastic stocks on sightless Remingtons is going to have an 8x60 reamer on hand.

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Yeah, I just looked at that long list. It looks like a list of every fixed ammo cartridge made in the world since the advent of centerfire cartridges! For example, how much call could there be for 7.35mm Carcano or 11X59mm GRAS these days? In addition, some of the listings are duplicates: 7.65X53mm Mauser and 7.65X53mm Belgian Mauser; 7,65mm Argentine mauser and 7.65X54mm Argentine! This is a hokey list. I hope his guns are better-they sure cost enough. Before I pooped off $4,000 on one of those, I'd buy a Dakota No. 10!

quote:

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Originally posted by El Deguello:
To whom did Sisk refer you? Did you find anyone who had a reamer beside Sisk? In view of their policy, I suppose contacting them would not do much good?????

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I'll have to take a look when I get home. I was asking about a different metric cartridge and he did not say the he did or did not have the reamer, just that he would not do the work but referred me elsewhere. If I find the information I will send you a PM.

El De,

Have you tried White Rock Tool and Die 6400 N. Brighton Av. Kansas City, Mo. 816 454 0478.
I used them many years ago to rent metric reamers. No email or web that I know of, worth a try.

Bob

quote:

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Originally posted by Charles_Helm:

quote:

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Originally posted by El Deguello:
To whom did Sisk refer you? Did you find anyone who had a reamer beside Sisk? In view of their policy, I suppose contacting them would not do much good?????

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I'll have to take a look when I get home. I was asking about a different metric cartridge and he did not say the he did or did not have the reamer, just that he would not do the work but referred me elsewhere. If I find the information I will send you a PM.

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Thanks!!

quote:

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Have you tried White Rock Tool and Die 6400 N. Brighton Av. Kansas City, Mo. 816 454 0478.
I used them many years ago to rent metric reamers. No email or web that I know of, worth a try.

Bob

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No, Bob. But I will. Thanks for the tip!

Folks
The reamer list is from Pacific Tool, in White City Oregon. I dont remember seeing anywhere that I had all of these available and setting on the shelf. Old age and dry rot would probably get the most of these before they were ever sold, so I refer folks to Dave Kiff. I can have Dave to make whatever someone wants, but its just as easy to call him as me. Dave's number is 541-826-5808.
Charlie

quote:

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Originally posted by Sisk Rifles:
I dont remember seeing anywhere that I had all of these available and setting on the shelf.

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Thanks for contributing to the discussion. I knew that you post here but not often. The reamer list mentioned above is from your page and linked as "Chamber Reamers" at the bottom of your main web page. That is why I was confused and thought you had the reamers, although as was pointed out in the thread by you and others it would be an awful lot of reamers to have on hand.

Sorry if I caused any confusion. I appreciate your sorting it out.

The receiver sight mounted on the bolt release is a Lyman #35, worth about $250.