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Ouch!!! Chambered Wrong Round...?
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Okay.

My buddy was kind enough to take his nephew to the range last weekend, and the youngster--well, not that young--somehow managed to chamber, at least part way, a 7.62x54 Russian round in the M1A.

Is there any easy, safe way to remove this live round?

Thanks,

flaco
 
Posts: 674 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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Well...I am assuming if the round is pnly part way chambered the gun is not in battery and the firing pin cannot move forward.

Therefore, pull back on the charging lever if the bolt comes back and does not eject the round then hold the bolt back with a wood dowel and insert a brass rod in the bbl and tap the cartridge loose.


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10181 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Tap gently! Kudude
 
Posts: 1473 | Location: Tallahassee, Florida | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Tap, tap, tap- and hopefully the cartridge will come out, or the bullet will be pushed back into the case. If so, then pour some Kroil down the bore and let it set for 4-5 hours. This will make the primer and powder inert and you can more safely tap out the round.


An old pilot, not a bold pilot, aka "the pig murdering fool"
 
Posts: 2905 | Registered: 14 October 2004Reply With Quote
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The first thing to do is to remove thr trigger group, maybe even the bolt and op-rod if possible, then you can get medieval on that stuck round.
 
Posts: 3889 | Registered: 12 May 2005Reply With Quote
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If I am right you will find that the rim is not up against the chamber and if so it is a simple problem. Take a flat blade screw driver,(First put a good squirt of a good penitrating oil down the barrel) and place the flat against the rim oc the cartridge with the bolt to the rear and give the screw driver a good smack with a hammer, the round should come out.


It is not what you hunt with, it is how you hunt that matters!
 
Posts: 130 | Location: St. Albans Maine | Registered: 29 June 2003Reply With Quote
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Let the kid do it. Stand back a prudent distance and make a video. It should be a classic; comedy?; tragedy?; drama for sure. Get a close up of the beads of sweat on his face. If he survives, be sure and show the video to his girlfriend right before they leave for the prom in a couple years.

lawndart


 
Posts: 7158 | Location: Snake River | Registered: 02 February 2004Reply With Quote
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If you insist on doing the "tap tap" rod job, make darn sure you don't have anybody stand either in front of the muzzle or behind the gun. Apparently, there is no guarantee the round won't go off.

That said, I have actually done a "tap tap" before, and managed to survive. Since then, I have been told it is not as safe an operation as it might look.
- mike


*********************
The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart
 
Posts: 6653 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: 11 March 2002Reply With Quote
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I read on the internet(must be true!) of a fatality caused by attempting the rod-tap thing...Kroil is pretty amazing stuff, maybe it will inert the round, mebbe it won't. I would urge your friend to seek professional help IF all other efforts fail...and try to disassemble the action if possible first.

After all is said and done, the boy needs some more familarity training with guns...take him to the range a lot. Opportunity is knocking...




If yuro'e corseseyd and dsyelixc can you siltl raed oaky?

 
Posts: 9647 | Location: Yankeetown, FL | Registered: 31 August 2002Reply With Quote
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Hey Lawndart, uhhmmm...did you train the dog in your avitar yourself? If you did, I'm sure you can make some extra cash as a side job

jumping


Lt. Robert J. Dole, 10th Mountain, Italy.
 
Posts: 609 | Location: South-central KS | Registered: 22 September 2004Reply With Quote
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As I recall Brownells sells a small slide hammer with an attachment which will grip the head of the offending cartridge so that it can be removed. If I was you I would take it to the nearest gunsmith with one of these devices and give the bill to the kid. That being said I had a 300 Savage well stuck in my Rem 722 that would not come out. I filled the barrel with penetrating oil and let it remain upright in the safe for a couple of weeks to give the penetrating oil plenty of time to work. I then inserted a brass rod and carefully tapped it out. Kroil oil should work fine also.
 
Posts: 25 | Location: Northern California | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of Matt Norman
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I recall a story about 15-20 years ago that a person got killed at a bench rest match by a launched cleaning rod that skewered him. No, I don't recall many of the details, but it was a stuck cartridge in the chamber and the "tap-tap-tap" from-the-muzzle-method was being deployed. The cartridge went boom and the cleaning rod impaled somebody. I also think the NRA did some follow-up on this; that compressing the powder charge can somehow (albeit rarely) cause ignition.

I like the idea of soaking things down with Kroil and going about this very carefully.
 
Posts: 3300 | Location: Western Slope Colorado, USA | Registered: 17 August 2001Reply With Quote
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As I recall the story, the person at the Bench Rest match was indeed trying to remove a stuck round by tapping it with a cleaning rod. The round went off and one of the competitor’s wife’s was walking by and was killed by brass coming out of the chamber. I do not recall what happened to the person doing the tapping but do not think that he was impalled by the cleaning rod.
 
Posts: 25 | Location: Northern California | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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So, where did this wrong ammunition come from, and who taught him how to load the weapon?

Like most cases of brain-dead kids it‘s normally a family trait...and I think his uncle needs a whack or two.
 
Posts: 4574 | Location: Valencia, California | Registered: 16 March 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
If I was you I would take it to the nearest gunsmith with one of these devices and give the bill to the kid.


Why is that, was he told not to load that round or was it just sitting on the table? Had he been shown how to read headstamps to make sure it goes into the proper gun?

At any rate, isn't the 7.62x54 a semi rimmed round? I would take the prior advice and remove the trigger group and stock and lever it out with a screwdriver. I have no faith that kroil or anything else would prevent this round from going off. Or I would imagine you could remove the bolt and slip a shellholder over the rim and pry on that.


for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside
 
Posts: 7786 | Location: Between 2 rivers, Middle USA | Registered: 19 August 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by flaco:
Okay.

My buddy was kind enough to take his nephew to the range last weekend, and the youngster--well, not that young--somehow managed to chamber, at least part way, a 7.62x54 Russian round in the M1A.

Is there any easy, safe way to remove this live round?

Thanks,

flaco


If you can't carefully coax the cartridge out with a flat bladed screw driver against the rim of the cartridge, You might try stuffing a rag in the open action to catch the cartridge and prevent the primer from striking anything sharp, and gently try to push the round out with a cleaning rod from the muzzle end (Grrrrrrr!!!).

Don't use a wooden dowel because wooden dowels break, and they usually break just below the muzzle, and would look silly when you take it to the gunsmith for removal.

If you can't GENTLY tap the round out of the chamber and into the rag, Don't be tempted to use a bigger hammer. Take it to a gunsmith so he can pull the barrel, drill and flood the case with WD40 to kill the round, so he can move on to more advanced stuff to get the stuck round out.

Afterwords, have you friend hang the kid off a wall locker by his elbows while holding the M-14, er, M1A behind his head. He'll never do that again! Big Grin
 
Posts: 1374 | Registered: 06 November 2005Reply With Quote
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Re: the bench rest match fatality, it is real possible that MJS3240 is correct. I do recall that it was a passerby that got killed (not the person doing the whacking on the cleaning rod).

Give the kid and the people that took him shooting a break! I too have done something akin to that more than once. No, never put a 7.62x54 in a .308 chamber, but I've done my share of dumb things.

So those of you that have never, ever, made a mistake....flame away!
 
Posts: 3300 | Location: Western Slope Colorado, USA | Registered: 17 August 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Give the kid and the people that took him shooting a break! I too have done something akin to that more than once.


I couldn't agree more. We seldom remember our own adolescent mistakes. None of us was born "grown", and he wasn't either. Ease up!! There are millions of grown men and women with self-esteem problems because their parents never figured out how to praise what they did right and minimize the mistakes.
 
Posts: 4748 | Location: TX | Registered: 01 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Last time (and only time so far) it happened to me was a partially sized .270 cartridge in the same .270 it was originally fired in--turns out the chamber was out of round and the case stuck.


An old pilot, not a bold pilot, aka "the pig murdering fool"
 
Posts: 2905 | Registered: 14 October 2004Reply With Quote
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I’d still like to know who showed the kid how to load and operate the weapon?

I don’t believe that the Russian ammo will fit in an M14 magazine (will it?) and since you can’t close the bolt on an M14 with an empty magazine in place, how did he get the round in the chamber and close the bolt on it?
 
Posts: 4574 | Location: Valencia, California | Registered: 16 March 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Doubless:
There are millions of grown men and women with self-esteem problems...


Save it for Dr. Phil. Perhaps you couldn't tell, but the "wall locker" comment was supposed to be light hearted, based on my own personal experiences.

That said, kids handling firearms require close supervision. When they screw up with a firearm, they may not get a second chance, so it's up to the supervising adult to make the necessary corrections and then move on. Hopefully the kid and the adult will get off cheap.
 
Posts: 1374 | Registered: 06 November 2005Reply With Quote
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Roy Dunlap gives some advice in "Gunsmithing". It pretty-much boils down to the tap tap method. Failing a gentle approach he recommends soldering a drill bit to a rod and using the assembly with a brace to drill a hole in the bullet, dump the powder out and get medeval as recommended above.

I'd lay off the kid and be looking to the guardian too.

This episode also nicely illustrates one of the few M1 design flaws - if the bolt will wedge a case like that, think about what it will do to a thumb - It hurts really bad (ask me how I know).


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Posts: 196 | Location: NC | Registered: 21 June 2002Reply With Quote
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