I currently have a custom 458 win mag built on a P-17 remington action. it currently cocks on closing. I am thinking of purchasing a Dayton Traister trigger in order to cock on open. I reviewed the installation instructions on their website. Is this unit difficult to install? I have the dremel tool. I am pretty handy and not scared to dive into things but should I get a smith to do this?

dr jonh,

in the late 60's I got a cocking piece , firing pin and spring from Numerich Arms which is now Gun parts corp. that was a drop in installation for the US Model 1917. I also added a timney sportsman trigger which also dropped in and turned it into a cock on opening.
No gringing or cutting, maybe its still available to save you some creative metalwork?

Bob

I would recommend a Timney much more than I would a Dayton.
The fit and finish on a Timney are much better and they allow you to easily adjust creep, pull weight, and aftertravel.
I currently have them in stock.

-Spencer

John, I've done a couple of the Dayton Traisters and one of the Gun Parts Corp. conversions. The DT is a much better conversion and is not really that difficult. After you get the cocking cam notch shaped, reassemble your bolt with the new cocking piece and work the bolt up and down in the action without the trigger installed. This will wear in the new notch. Then use some Kasenit to give it a glass hard surface. That really slicks it up. Both of mine turned out perfect. Rojelio

I liked the idea of the Dayton Traister trigger as they don't require the wood removal that the other triggers do, and thats good on a big bore rifle, however I will not use them as I have had two break and know of a number of others that have broken...Not good on a DGR and can really mess up an otherwise good hunt...

I am curious. You are installing an over ride trigger and a new cocking piece that makes it cock on opening? The Numrich cocking piece used a super mainspring and left only 5/16" firing pin fall. If you installed a Timeney trigger with it the firing pin energy got to small and ignition got spotty. How does this set up get around the short firing pin fall problem? It was my impression that to make it cock on opening, and do it right, one needed to weld up the cocking cam and re-engineer the safety and sear. That seems like a lot of trouble so I tend to leave them cock on closing.

I've had both a 458 Lott and 500 Jeffrey built on P-17's, and both were left as cock on closing. I've never had a problem opperating the enfield in this manner.

If anything, I think cock on closing is superiour for a DGR. The bolt is much easier and smoother to open, and you'll be plenty motivated to close it with vigor.

scot,

never had a problem with mine, always worked, no misfires. when remington used these 1917 actions for their commercial rifles, how did they convert them to cock on open ? My action had the ears removed and reblued by Paul Jaeger in Pa. and no other modifications were made. I wasn't aware of a short pin fall, is there something i should look for? Thanks.

Bob.

Enfield cock-on-opening kits like the Numrich and the Sarco, which ‘drop in’ without requiring any additional metalwork, provide a VERY short firing pin fall, less than 1/4in to full protrusion. Even with their extra-powerful springs, ignition can sometimes be marginal, resulting in a fall off in accuracy, or even outright mis-fires. The Dayton-Traister kit is somewhat different in that it requires deepening and re-shaping the cocking cam notch in the bolt, providing a fall of about 0.30in to full protrusion and a significant increase in impact energy.

The Remington Model 30 and 30S, and the Model 720, were basically made from surplus M17 parts. Up to 1926, the Model 30 retained the original cock-on-closing system. Later models were cock-on-opening. Their bolts were presumably made from unfinished forgings, because their cocking cam notches are significantly different to the original in both depth and shape, and their cocking pieces are also differently proportioned.

I’m not clear about why an Enfield converted to cock-on-opening is alleged to NOT work correctly with a Timney trigger. If the face of the Timney sear was not in the same position as the original military trigger, and held the cocking piece in the same position, the safety catch would not function. (the safety catch cam would not be able to engage the notch in the cocking piece)

I put a Timney Sportsman trigger in my Remington 30S, and it works just fine. Only minor fitting was needed. Mostly wood removal for the larger trigger housing and a little work on the same to get it to pin into place. My 30S is of the later type, cocks on opening.

Hog Killer

quote:

I’m not clear about why an Enfield converted to cock-on-opening is alleged to NOT work correctly with a Timney trigger.

When you use the Numrich kit you have a very short firing pin fall. It works OK with the issue trigger because the whole lenght of the fall is free to move with nothing obstructing the movement of the striker. In other words the sear is either blocking the striker or it is not. With the addition of an over ride trigger a part of that movement is levering the primary sear down and thus not letting the sear move unemcumbered. It slows it down just a little but since the energy is on theminimal side it can be enough to cause problems.

Funny, after years of messing with enfields I never thought to DEEPEN the cocking cam. You only need a little more firing pin fall to make it work right. In the books I used for reference they all talked about building up the cam. I see no reason not to let it fall a little farther. Nice idea!

I would stay from the Dayton!!! I had one in my P-14 and after a few years it would fire as the safety was taken off or the bolt closed fast. Upon inspecting the trigger I found that the sear had rounded over and checking it for hardness with a file(I was going to junk the trigger any way) I found it quite soft. I would go with the Timney.