This past weekend we had a dangerous game shoot competition and my 375 H/H with a Mauser action, developed ejection issues with the first round where the case was pulled out of the chamber but not ejected. I had to just tilt the rifle for it to fall out but this only occurred on the first shot. All other cases ejected as normal.
Feedback on possible issues would be appreciated.

Sou8nds to me like the first round was dragging on the rest of the rounds.

The rearward force you were applying to the bolt was not enough to over come it.

Or the rest of the rounds were forcing it up enough to miss the ejector.

There's no missing the ejector on a mauser, very positive. Pull the ejector box and look for broken or faulty parts; or eject more forcefully.

Check the rear top corner of the ejection port.
If that corner is still square you will need to grind that corner off with a die grinder. Allow the case a little more room to be ejected clear.
In addition, ensure the extractor is holding the case firmly. If the extractor only has light to marginal control of the case ejection will be lack luster.

"Only happens on the first shot; all others eject normally", is the evidence.
Did this just start happening? Is a new rifle? Where is the second cartridge, on the left or right?

I bought the rifle second hand but it was pretty new and hardly used, I have shot a fair amount with it and this weekends comp was the first time this problem presented itself. No3 round sits on left. As mentioned other cases are ejected 100%

If I was to guess, I'd say the second round, being on the right, forces the ejected brass up enough and to the right and the extractor doesn't throw it clear. To determine that, there could be two solutions/problems that you need to research. One, as Stuart said, is that the brass is hitting and catching at the back left corner. The other is that the mag box isn't quite wide enough, and the 2nd round is being held up a bit too high, and lowering it a bit by widening the box would fix the problem. It's going to take some feeding with dummies and observing to see what the problem is. Also check the fit in the claw, I had a loose one a few weeks ago that wouldn't eject right due to improper grinding in the conversion to magnum; replacing the extractor made it work.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:
Check the rear top corner of the ejection port.
If that corner is still square you will need to grind that corner off with a die grinder. Allow the case a little more room to be ejected clear.
In addition, ensure the extractor is holding the case firmly. If the extractor only has light to marginal control of the case ejection will be lack luster.

How do you fix a loose extractor I have a Kimber of Oregon .223 that appears to have this problem, and, of course, there are no replacement extractors available.

So what I read:
1. It Just started happening this past weekend.
2. Previously it operated normally.
3. The next cartridge in the magazine is on the right.
Yes?
Are you operating the bolt with the same impulse as when it worked correctly?
Since it worked last week, and this week, it doesn't, you need to determine what changed.
Something did. Inspect your ejector, and extractor. Unlikely that cartridge it has to jump over changed positions in one week. But check your mag box anyway.
Hard to diagnose them over the internet.

Fix a loose extractor? Remove it and bend it. Carefully. They are springs; and will bend.

Did you by any chance loose feed a round into the chamber, instead from the magazine? Particularly if you didn't use the thumb press trick on the back end of the extractor to flex the claw out and over the case rim as you forced it over.

Sometimes loose feeding a round can spring or bend the extractor, and that could cause how it feeds to change.

Have you had the action/barrel out of the stock since it was extracting okay, if so take the stock off again and check that the magazine box is properly in place in the bottom of the action.
A Mauser usually extracts and ejects cases easily without having to be over exertive on operating the bolt, as others have observed, something has changed in configuration for your Mauser not to eject the first fired case.

The most important question is.

Have you changed brand of ammo/cases

You would be surprised of the difference in diameter of the extractor groove between brands of cases.

A smaller groove diameter makes for a LOOSE case in the bolt face/extractor hook and causes the problem you described as the loose case will droop and rub on the next incoming right side cartridge in the magazine, thus causing a ejection issue

In talking with DArcy Echols a few weeks ago, we have both been fitting the extractor hooks for years to have aprox .008" tension on the smallest groove diameter of the cases. But if the other way around, ( too loose ) then you will have feeding and ejection issues.

Just my 2 cents.

J Wisner

Thank you all for your replies.

I will go through the suggestions systematically and see if anything jumps out at me.
The difference between the properly ejected case and the one that doesn't leave the rifle is quite significant so I am hoping the cause will turn out to be fairly obvious.
From the videos of the day it doesn't appear as if my force of bolt operation is any less than the other rounds and I definitely have never loaded a loose round just on top of the magazine. Gives me nightmares when people do that on Mauser actions. Witnessed a gentleman with a 450 Rigby do that this weekend.

Ok, so this is about what I can see from the cycling operation.
This last round is on the right hand side and as the bolt is drawn back (very slowly) as it clears the next round before it is ejected the bullet underneath seems to give it a slight "bump" which loosens the grip the bolt face has on the case. And this seems to affect the ejection.

But you said it just started happening this past weekend and previously it worked fine. Did you change bullet profile? Extractor got loose as described above. Broken lip? Dirt under rails? Bring it over and we'll fix it.

No changes on anything, heads, cases , primer , powder all the same as before.
Rifle as clean as a whistle. Nothing seems broken.
Wish I could bring it over! Will have to find someone local to have a look at it.

quote:

Originally posted by Snav:
Ok, so this is about what I can see from the cycling operation.
This last round is on the right hand side and as the bolt is drawn back (very slowly) as it clears the next round before it is ejected the bullet underneath seems to give it a slight "bump" which loosens the grip the bolt face has on the case. And this seems to affect the ejection.

You don't know that the bullet underneath didn't bump before when everything was working perfectly? Why would it suddenly bump now if it did not before?
Working an action slowly is not necessarily going to show up an issue that happens when the action is worked at normal speed. If indeed it is the slight bump from the bullet next up in the magazine that is knocking the case out of the grip of the extractor, then the extractor has a weak hold on the case, check for cracks in the extractor, may not be that visible but maybe there all the same.

The extractor on my Mauser 404 will hold a loaded round 'clipped' to the bolt face with the bolt held horizontal out of the rifle. On a DG rifle you need a good extractor that has a strong grip on loaded rounds and cases at all times irrespective of what is in the magazine beneath.

In any case, and diagnosing over the internet is impossible, I would put a longer ejector blade in it. Make one if you have to.
That will make the case get pushed out before it can get pushed upward.
If taking to a "local person" is anything like here, that is a complete joke; all they know how to do is replace parts on an AR-15. Anything with a wooden stock; clueless.

Take a round and snap it into the boltface under the extractor. Observe how it is held. Does it flop down? Does it fall out? Does it snap in firm and stay under the extractor? Does the extractor ride firm on it's collar and stay in contact with the bolt body?

If you can replicate it, shoot a video on your phone. i can host it for you.

We need to keep the internet-mauser-wont-feed-what-do-I-do train rolling.

Bullet is held firmly in the bolt when out the rifle and held horizontally. Both dummy round and loaded one.
BaxterB - I do have a video that I can send you. What is the best? DM your details? Send via mobile or email?
Thank you for the kind offer.

Are you now testing by ejecting loaded/dummy cartridges? I thought the problem was with fired brass. You should test it with that; that is the important part. Can't change variables in the middle of a test.
You mentioned "bullets"; I didn't think bullets were involved except for the cartridges in the magazine.

Lets not let our Northern/Southern hemisphere terminology spoil our fun!
Bullet=loaded cartridge
Bullet head= self explanatory.
Case=self explanatory.

The results are exactly the same using the dummy round.

Ok, what happens when you try to eject a case?
Which is what I deem to be most important. Ejecting loaded rounds is far less so, to me.

I hear what you are saying and you are probably right I should’ve done the test with spent cases. However the results achieved with dummy rounds and the loaded cartridges are exactly the same as with the spent cases. First round isn’t ejected, whereas 2 and 3 are thrown clear with plenty of energy.

By the test I mean filming the ejection process as suggested by BaxterB. I’m unfortunately away until next week when I could film the process using spent cases as well.

Yes, I understood exactly what you were referring to. Now try the test with an empty case. After you shoot that buffalo, getting the old case out and the new cartridge/bullet/round/ammo, back in is what matters to me.
It could be that the bullet/projectile in the magazine, is rising, as you said, but might not interfere with just a fired case.

Just another idea.... Sometimes, the bevel on the extractor is a little too steep allowing the extractor groove on the case to become somewhat "trapped" by the too steep bevel on the extractor.

Seen this on conversions from say..06 to mag. Can really show up on rebated rims (as in 500 Jeff)

I learned not to like belted magnum rounds.

One possibility, the next round in the magazine is pushed a little higher due to spring tension, and then, the belt on the next round in the mag is hitting the rim on the round coming out of the chamber. That would knock the round off the bolt face.

Another is the gunsmith who opened the bolt face, squared the left shoulder.



that shoulder, should slightly cup the rim. That keeps the round in place. Gunsmiths will cut that shoulder perfectly perpendicular.

One way to test is to remove the bolt, place a round under the extractor, and compare the tension against a none messed with bolt. If a loaded round falls off the bolt face, you have found a tension issue.

When military Mauser actions are messed with by gunsmiths, or converted to inappropriate calibers, they change dimensions by truing, lapping lugs, etc. This could be one of those dimensions that was altered. I am not a fan of lug truing, as it shortens the effective length of the bolt and removes case. Shortening the bolt will cause problems with safety engagement, and hitting the sear too hard when closing the bolt. If you use a single stage trigger, hitting the sear too hard will over ride the sear, causing the firing pin to close with the bolt. It is lucky that there are few reports of firings from this malfunction, but it could happen as the firing pin is touching the primer as the bolt is cammed down.

Don't forget that this is all something that has happened rather suddenly from a rifle that according to the OP was working fine to one that failed at a competition shoot. Bolt faces, springs (unless broken or have suddenly got bent), changes to cases which the OP assures us haven't happened, all don't come into the picture.

Something has changed or been changed, inadvertently maybe, to go from a Mauser extracting and ejecting perfectly to one that still extracts but won't eject the empty case after firing the first round out of the magazine.

I've suggested check the magazine box, although the stock may have not been removed, maybe the box join has come unstuck or it has cracked and is not clipped into the lower receiver as it should be. As other rounds are stripped and fired the mag spring tension reduces so is maybe overcoming the mag box issue if there is one.

The OP is saying the second round down in the magazine has it's projectile kicking up???? although no evidence to say it hasn't always done this.
If this is a new occurrence then again check the magazine box, mag spring (maybe not clipped correctly into the floorplate), even the mag top plate for something changed with this.

I don't see that there can be anything wrong with the ejector itself as all the other rounds or cases after the first are ejected normally.

Has to be a methodical process of elimination. A process doesn't change suddenly without cracking, bending, breakage or crud getting in to where it shouldn't.

Years ago I had a Mark X in 375 in the shop that would eject so/so with loaded ammo, but did OK with empties

Found out the overlength of the loaded ammo was just a bit too long and the bullet tip would rub on the inside top front lug cut in the front receiver ring.

I removed about .020" from where the bullet nose would hit most often, and that cured the issue with Loaded ammo, think of a small cut like on the Enfield 14/17 receivers

When converting a Mauser to 375, this can be a issue, only so much you can move the bolt stop and ejector back, and then you have the important front receiver ring that the bullet nose can drag on.

JW

Occasionally you will find that the extractor groove on the case varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. This can affect ejection. One brand will have more extractor tension and will eject nicely while another brand will have little tension and will fall off the claw but not eject.

Exactly; I was just going to say; Don't forget guys, the OP said that it was working fine just last week.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Exactly; I was just going to say; Don't forget guys, the OP said that it was working fine just last week.

Yes and the OP says "No changes on anything, heads, cases, primer, powder all the same as before."
It's the case not ejecting so nothing to do with cartridge OAL either as JW is suggesting as a maybe.
Reiterate again, it ejects all the other cases when fired, only the first fired cartridge case it doesn't, got to look closely at the magazine, what has changed????

This thread makes me wonder how on earth the factories can fit extractors and ejectors to bolt action magazine rifles and make them work reliably at affordable prices under systems of mass production?

Pretty amazing when you think about it.

How? They are not as finicky as guys make them out to be. I have a ton of parts here; you can take a set of random parts and assemble an action from parts from ten makers over a 50 year spread that will work on the first try. Not always, but close.
It's after you get guys working on them, and worn parts, that you get issues. And of course, conversions to magnums, most guys do not know how to perform correctly.

I've been down many a intertubes rabbit hole and this one is right up there. Re the problem: Magic Eight Ball sez...."Keep trying."

Here's the video...



Mauser Ejecting



This is an interesting moment. The rim hits the left corner of the rear bridge and gets trapped between it and the right side. the is when ejection stops.






Here is the second case ejecting - you can see the thin black space between the rim and the bridge.

OK, I watched the video. I'm no expert so these are merely my observations. Hopefully they might help pinpoint the issue.
It seems to me when the first ejected case hits the ejector that the case comes off the bolt face as it should but maybe the rim, or belt, of this case connects with the rim or belt of the case underneath interfering with proper ejection enough that the first case actually swivels back to rest atop the magazine. The reason I suspect this is when your fingers pick off this first case you see the case underneath ( i.e. the second case ) is positioned quite forward in the magazine and also appears to sit quite high, particularly the rear end of the case. Whether this is usual or not I don't know but an experienced Mauser smith here would know. Compare this to when you successfully eject the second case and can see the case underneath that ( i.e. case 3 ) which is positioned further back and appears to also sit lower on the follower.
If case / round 2 is originally positioned more rearwards when the magazine is charged maybe it's getting pushed / dragged forward somehow when chambering the first round. I think you could test this by fully charging the magazine and slowly chambering the top round while watching the round underneath to see if it's being moved forward.
I might be completely wrong here but maybe checking the follower spring too see if it has moved backwards somehow from it's proper position might be worthwhile.
Also, It's hard to tell from the video due to shadow but the ejector doesn't seem to project very much from the bolts ejector slot. Obviouusly it's working enough to punch the case off the bolt face but maybe this action needs to be more pronounced to get complete ejection...?? As I say, it's difficult to see the ejector properly.
Hope you get this solved. This would annoy me if my rifle.

By the way, what is that yellow debris appearing before case two gets chambered ?