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One of Us |
Does anyone know if Winchester has moved manufacturing of rifles to Portugal from South Carolina? I got that news in a note from a dealer explaining why he did not have Winchesters but wanted me to buy Montana Rifles. | ||
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One of Us |
Maybe the new logo should be sold in America, but made elsewhere! Jim | |||
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one of us |
Well, according to this, not exactly....(I have not checked accuracy of this off of firearmsblog)
xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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one of us |
Many Browning-branded firearms starting in the 1980's were "Made in Belgium, assembled in Portugal". I have to assume that Winchester is using the same assembly plant, which has been around for a while now. Not knowing what portion of the process is classed as "manufacture" and what is classed as "assembly" it is hard to understand just what advantage this system might hold -- and it could have more to do with taxes and tariffs than with fundamental costs. | |||
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One of Us |
I've always said "just say no to post-64 Model 70's..." So much for the story (lie) that the greedy unions drove Winchester out of New Haven. Rich | |||
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One of Us |
Rich, Where do you draw that conclusion from? Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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One of Us |
Nothing drove Winchester out of New Haven. They died there through mis-management and family greed. In 1975 they were still running machines on line shafts. You up date or die. SCI lifer NRA Patron DRSS DSC | |||
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One of Us |
It stands to figure that it is cheaper to make the parts here, then ship them to Portugal for assembly (speeds up production they say) and then ship the assembled rifles back here. Unions drove Winchester out of NH, now right-to-work states and non-unions are driving them to Portugal. FN seems to have a penchant for sticking things together in Portugal. I stopped buying Brownings when they did that with the HiPower. Buy OM 70's, you get a lot more for your money. Rich | |||
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one of us |
I have to disagree. I own several Browning guns that are assembled in Portugal and fit and finish is very good, with no function problems. I see no downside to this except that American pride is damaged and jobs are lost. It is really very hard to have the American manufactured or I will not buy it in todays global economy. Frankly, they will probably be a better finished product than any pre 64. I do agree however, that they will not increase in value like the pre-64 in the collector market. | |||
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One of Us |
Talk about union running Browning out Belgium to Japan, and also the politics involved in Belgium, Now FN owns Browning and Winchester so they will make then as cheap as they can wherever they can, but I would think import duties on a finish product would be expensive unless they have a some allowance be it has start out production here. Beretta sends in incomplete o/u so import duty is less then put the ejectors in here. | |||
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One of Us |
Really? Greedy unions? Do you have some numbers to back that up? How much were the "greedy union" machinists being paid per hour? $10/hr? $15/hr? $20/hr? Or were the corporate raiders who buy and sell companies to fatten their wallets without regard for the companies health to blame? WRAC has been an after thought in the US firearms market for years. Not due to its employees, but due to poor leadership and lack of innovation in an aggressive market. Dave | |||
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one of us |
There is a reason that virtually every U.S. firearms manufacturer is making plans to transition out of the Northeast (Ruger to AZ, Remington to NC & AL, etc). Union labor is no doubt part of that calculus. | |||
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One of Us |
when Browning first moved my friend in Belgium who had worked for Browning said the union and the government got together and told Browning, they were raise the wages 28%, and Browning at time they would never be able to sell firearms at those prices. Moved to Japan, where they could begin using modern production systems. | |||
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One of Us |
Miroku was already making copys of b25 Browning visited them in Japan to stop them. They was so impressed by the production so they introduced them as a low lost browning model. | |||
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One of Us |
IIRC Japan has had reasonably good wages, too, and has probably treated employees better than most other countries, possibly to the economy's cost. Wages can sometimes get out of hand but we have seen businesses so needy (or greedy) that even if the workers/unions agree to pay reductions, the company still packs up and goes somewhere cheaper. | |||
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One of Us |
I just love all this analysis with no facts Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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one of us |
I have some facts, I'm just not willing to share. | |||
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One of Us |
What sort of facts would you like, Mike? In politics and business, those who really know generally won't say. But on the odd occasion people do, they'd better be ready for 35 years in jail, exile in Russia or crushing law suits. | |||
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One of Us |
Hey, don't beat up on the Portugese; they make great gates. I have three I use all the time. | |||
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One of Us |
A7, that was sarcasm... | |||
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One of Us |
You guys are on top of it, I thought Winchester went out of business in 1929, they also got out of the hardware business, then there was the ammo business, I thought Olin/Western Cartridge Company purchased the ammunition side. F. Guffey | |||
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