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While in Zim last week, I saw a PH's CZ in .458 Lott that had been cured of it's cronic feeding problems by replacing the uneven magazine follower with a flat plate, and then spot welding two feed rails on the side of the magazine that caused each round to pop up directly in the center. This allowed the bolt face to contact much more of the rim than on a standard magazine, and eliminated any turns as the round entered the chamber. This gun now works 100-percent of the time at all speeds. Since I've been having so much trouble with my 404 (it jammed on my buffalo and I turned down a chance to hunt a PAC elephant with it because it was jamming 50-percent of the time with solids), I was wondering if this might no be the solution to my feeding problems? | ||
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GA, The generally reason for the uneven follower is to create stagger to increase magazine capacity. If there is no need for the magazine capacity then having the cartridge centered should increase reliability. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike, On Henry's CZ, the rounds still staggered and he was able to load four down, which is pretty good for a Lott. It was just that he had to load each round between the rails ass-end first before pushing it down into the magazine. The new feed rails simply guide each staggered round into the middle and up. I have never seen anything like it on this side of the pond and have thought about contacting Henry's gunsmith in Harare to get info on how he did it. | |||
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Sounds like a very good solution to a feeding problem!  "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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Sounds like a good idea. The 378, 416, 460 Weatherbys, the 375, 458 Sauer, and all the Blaser R 93 calibers all feed from the "center". I have never heard of ANY feeding problems with them. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Just have it fixed, forget the other stuff, you should always check feeding and extraction before you go on Safari... A 404 can be made to feed, but its tricky and not just anyone is capable...Mauser could do it, and a few gunsmiths can make it feed, most don't know what they are doing because its an unfamilar case.... One of the secrets is to have a releif cut in the side walls of the magazine so that only the base and shoulder touch at the sides...very important...Remington, btw, does this with the RUM made on a 404 case...Mauser always does this on all calibers. Another is to open the magazine to Mauser specs in front and back with a matching follower..rail work, and feed ramp, polishing etc... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I cycled hundreds, maybe even thousands of dummy and live rounds through the rifle before leaving. It made two trips to the gunsmith to try to work out the feeding problem. Got it to where it would feed reliably 98 out of every 100 times before leaving. But I have found out that "cold"cycling (without firing a shot between cycles) is not the same as "hot" cycling (firing between cycles). When cycling hot, it jams a hell of a lot more often then when cycling cold. I have no theories as to why this is the case. I've got forty fortunes invested in this rifle. I just want the damn thing fixed, one way or the other! | |||
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The system you describe is quite similar to the Weatherby in the 378 based calibres. The Wbys are not a true vertical stack but staggered and the magazine lips are bent over to produce a centre line feed. The follower is flat. You might also check the combination of your extractor dimensions and the brass extractor groove dimensions. It is critical on CRF because to loose and you leave the case sitting on the follower with slow bolt pull back and if too tight the case rim has trouble slipping under the extractor which in turn can cause the cartridge to "dip". In your 404 the combination of a chamber that is not a lot bigger than the bullet diameter plus a blunt bullet means the round has too line up well so the bullet does not catch the end of the chamber. Mike | |||
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I surely hope you make this contact and glean whatever you can in the way of instructions/sketches/tips/whatever from him. And then PLEASE post them here or at least send me a personal message sharing the info. You could help a lot of us, and might even conceiveably save a life! My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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The recoil forces the rounds in the magazine to "jump" forward to the front end of the mag box. Sorry but I can't help with the fix... You might have your gunsmith work on the feeding with the rounds pushed all the way forward instead of "as loaded" towards the rear. Also if your using pointy bullets the tip might have been damaged by being slammed into the magazine front by the recoil, I guess it's possible even RNs could deformed this way also. I had a minor problem like this in a 300WM and my smith fixed it, I think he said he "adjusted" the feed ramp, but I'm not sure about that. Roi | |||
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