I just spoke with McMillan, asking about the MRC 1999 actions. They said they could only inlet for the 1999 right hand Long Action. Kind of leaves me out in the cold being a Lefty. I thought this wasn't going to be a problem? I did have a similar post a few weeks ago, but I just settled on a McMillan........now I can't get one. I got a reference for D'Arcy Echols, how to contact him, I don't know???? What else was left??

Can McMilan do a left hand Winchester? The way I understand it is there isn't a whole lot of difference in the two.

Sounds to me like a dodge answer, like maybe they don't want to invest any money in inletting tooling for which there aren't 26 billion of that action out there already.

My gunsmith talked to McMillian a while back about stocking an M99 short action I have on order. McMillian told him that they were waiting to recieve actions from MRC so they could set up their tooling. I quess since both the M99 short and lefty actions are not yet shipping, it'll be a while before McMillian is set up to inlet for them.

I would did deeper at McMillan. I have sent several non standard actions to McMillan for inletting stocks. Takes a while, but the result is good. I think the action is measured on a coordinate machine, numbers programmed into their CNC machines, and the dust flies.

Not too much difference in a M70 and a MRC 99, you are going to bed the action anyway, so a M70 stock should work. I will stick a MRC99 action in a M70 stock tomorrow and let you know.

D'Arcy has put his left handed McMillan stocks on hold for a while. They were inletted for LA model 70's so the McMillan super grades ought to work with a little TLC and know how.
Chuck

It seems like almost anything other than a RH LA (perhaps a RH SA as well?) is a problem as far as production stocks is concerned. It will eventually happen, but that is probably cold comfort to the lefties with actions to stock right now. If in trouble, talk to Rod at AcraBond.
- mike

Let me put everyone at ease. The reason that McMillan and the rest of the companies aren't making inlet patterns yet for the M1999 Left hand actions is that we don't have them yet. We don't want to send them a early prototype as there may have been minor changes. Once we have an action available to send to them we will. In the meantime if you order a Post-64 Classic stock it will work with some inletting.

John Ricks and others-

Again, you never know what type of fellow or lady you are dealing with from computer chats. I assure all I am just a normal guy, but I get pissed off easy and don't let it go for a while.

I just deleted a reply from Kelly McMillan from a year ago. I called and asked about getting a Savage short action to fit in a Remington action(lefty). When I called McM, a lady on the other end told me she didn't know, and that was that. Generally, most of my lefty guns are built according to what stocks I can get. Barrels can always be made to fit and action.

So I "squealed" on this lady and E mailed Kelly and informed him I was not satisfied and was ditched as a caller(probably wife, grandma, etc). I never got an "I don't know, BUT I'LL FIND OUT". I basically got an I don't think so and hung up. He promptly wrote me back and said he spoke to the receiver of my call, and she did answer all of my questions and wasn't short with me.

That was the last time I tried McMillan until yesterday. I felt I could have gottten a different answer, had I pursued it. Should I really have to ask three times???

Can't help you with McMillan - I've emailed them and called and gotten variable results. Kelly tends to be cryptic in his replies but you have to remember that he answers his email all at the end of his busy day and probably has dozens to answer every day. If you call you need to ask for a fellow - I can't remember his name but if Big Stick reads this he will know the guy's name. The production manager I believe - he will give you the straight skinny. You might post a question to Big Stick on 24hourcampfire in the Rifles or Custom Rifles section asking his name - I think it starts with D, Dan or Dave?, but don't hold me to that.

As to D'Arcy Echols - I just spoke to Bart at Echols' shop, D'Arcy is out right now. They are still waiting on the left hand Legend stocks from McMillan but they are supposedly on the way. The last time I spoke to D'Arcy, about 5 or 6 weeks ago, he said he expected a batch of lefty Legend stocks around mid-September.

You can reach D'Arcy at 435-755-6842. He is also a busy man so I try not to bother him too much, but whenever I've left a message he has personally called back.

[ 09-12-2003, 22:57: Message edited by: Jim in Idaho ]

JJ....the fellow to talk to at McMillan is Dick Davis...a heck of a shooter and a very easy person to talk to.....having said all of that, it has been my experience that if a caller has an attitude going in, he won't be happy coming out.

Yea, replies from McMillan are variable. I have problems with the one on the other end of the phone not following directions. And I have received calls from the production manager asking about a barrel contour size for the inletting. So, go figure!!!

McMillian makes a lot of stocks, is a large company and has a lot of folks, so if you are set on a McMillan, don't give up, just "dig deeper" until you get a knowledgable person on the phone. I sometimes get irritated when a "phone answerer" is the one I have to order through, but I guess the experienced folks are on the floor making stocks. And the email order system does not work, my orders just dissappear into cyberspace. Gotta use the land line and talk to a living body.

I tried a M99 long action in a M70 stock: It will fit with some minor inletting: Receiver ring is a little longer, gotta relieve for the bolt stop housing, and the bottom metal takes deeper inletting. Like I said, you have to bed it anyway, so putting a M99 in a M70 stock is a piece of cake.

JJ, jump over to 24 hour campfire and post for Rick Bin. Rick owns the board, and he is a McMillan dealer of some sorts and has a bunch of stocks in inventory. If anybody has an "in" to McMillan, Rick is the guy.

Just got off the phone with D’Arcy and I stand corrected. Chuck Nelson had it right – D’Arcy has put the left hand Legend’s on hold.

To make a long story short, people’s mouths and people’s money are too often in different places. When he first contacted several folks he had 50 people saying they would jump on a left hand Legend from McMillan. But when he was ready to send his pattern in to McMillan he called and mailed these people and suddenly almost all of them were ‘uh, yeah, well, uh…”. D’Arcy has to buy 100 stocks at a time from McMillan and the initial outlay is just too much – especially when he figures 98 of those stocks would sit around for the next five years.

So…McMillan’s Supergrade is a very good stock and comes in a left hand configuration, I can attest to that personally. That would fit the Montana 1999 quite well. I can also attest that D’Arcy is a pretty neat fellow to chat with. I’ve talked to several of the “names” in the gun world and some, fortunately the minority, talk down to you and treat you like it’s an honor for you to be wasting their time. Not so with D’Arcy, we yakked about this and that for a good half hour, he’s a real regular guy.

From my experience it is McMillian that has an attitude problem. They think they made the best sythetics (they do) and that that entitles them to be arrogant and be short with customers.

At least that has been my experiences when talking on the phone with their front office. I have never spoken to one of the shop guys, but after the experiences on the phone with the lady who answered it, I have no desire to.

Since we CNC our M1999 Merlins, we can "mirror" the iges file and cut LH long actions today. I've not done so yet as we have no LH actions to validate the result.

As soon as the SA arrive, we'll program both LH and RH models for the all of the current geometries. Merlin is done, Lioness and Leopard nearly so. Cheetah is still a work-in-progress.

Rod

FWIW,
A little bit of courtesy goes a long way. As someone said earlier if you go in with an attitude you'll likely come away disappointed. Can't think of anywhere that does not apply. I see it on a fairly regular basis in retail as some folks think you are supposed to one knee it and kiss their ass because they are gracing you with their business. This generally results in getting the "bums rush" to the door from me...fwiw.

Kelly has bent over backwards for me in the past and IS a Complete Gentleman. That said he deals with a tremendous amount of e-mail. Don't expect a "Dear Bob" letter from him as he simply does not have the time. Where else can you yack with the CEO?

They are, imho, in a class of their own...

Regards, Matt.

I have always been of the opinion that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar and try to operate that way. I have no doubt that Kelly is a gentleman.

However, I also know when some front-desk person has a approaches customer with an attitude of "my life would be so much easier if I did not have to bother with these stupid customers"

I do a little business with more than a couple firms.

That being said,I've dealt with none that were as routinely courteous,informed and on their game as McMillan. I like to hear things from the horse's mouth,so if I'm debating something,I get hold of Mike or Kelly and keep it short but to the point. I know they have bigger fish to fry and appreciate their taking the time to answer my questions. They have always happily fielded those inquiries and done so with perfect accuracy.

Now cussing them for not inletting for an action that as of yet truly doesn't exist,is putting the cart pretty far in front of the horse. If you have said action in hand,send it to them and rest assured they can inlet for it,though it won't be cheap to set up the program. Though you will certainly get what you pay for.

Much to be said for doing a little research,before jumping into unknown waters with both feet. Look before you leap and there will be no suprises.

It always cracks me up how some try to pawn their ignorance off on others and then cuss a Manufacturer.

None of this is very hard,despite some folks being seemingly bent on increasing the difficulty factor at every given opportunity....................

Here we go again.......... Surprised that I did (do) have some back up, though. I never cussed a manufacturer. I actually still want a McM stock. Here's the catch.......why should I need an "in", as in knowing someone personally, to get a correct answer???? I busted no balls and used a polite and courteous tone.

I identified myself, and my geographic location as, "Hello my name is Jesse and I am calling from New Mexico. I have a new action and am inquiring if you inlet for a M1999 action from Montana Rifle Company? It is a left handed action in a Magnum configuration. I am also inquiring if being employed by the Dept of Homeland Security makes me eligible for Law Enforcement discount?"

She asked if I was eligible, and replied that I was, and said they don't inlet for that action. Nothing was said about the Winchester's being a possibility, or let me ask a production manager, or " I am not familiar with that brand"

Maybe Kelly is a great guy. I can attest he answers Emails promptly. Mark Brown on the other hand, spent 5 minutes with me, and said he could certainly make me a custom stock and explained some options, but I'd like to spend less than $800 on the stock.

I already knew a Winchester is "supposed" to fit. Do I need to know more that the people at the company???

As far as organizations "owing" something to people, you're damn right they do. I belond to the shittiest bank in America. Open from 9:42-11:01 and 12:56- 2:41. I wanted MY money they had been holding for me in a savings account to buy a Jeep. I asked for $5,000 cash, they had to give it to me in $20's. ATM card retained outside. "We can't get it until Monday". I saw my friend's wife, Jen, who I drink beer with. She's the manager. She took me outside, and we got my card in 2 minutes. Still, why should you need an "in"???? That kind of shit doesn't sit right with me.

Though you don't need an "in",you still no savvy the situation.

They currently do not inlet for the new action. It really isn't THAT confusing,is it?

You are pissed that you received some secondhand info and took it to be The Gospel. I'd channel those energies to the source that informed you incorrectly.

All you had to do,was call McMillan and relate in simplistic terms that "I'm contemplating a southpaw MRC action purchase and am curious to the options I have in regards to you folks poking a stock ont it?".

It's all a pretty easy solution,from square one.

That you "get pissed off easy and don't forget about it for awhile",don't convey brilliance. Stop,breathe deeply,accurately ascertain the situation and make a second call for any options that may be available to you from the initial Manufacturer you had your hopes set upon.

Rest assured that Kelly Mcmillan and Co. weren't at the design helm of your bastard action and the ball ain't in their court because you were compelled to believe speculation contrary to their current abilities.

Get as mad as you like,but you done it solely to yourself and that is the beauty of the situation(that as a casual observer)......................

There in lies the problem. I's want a brand new Cadillac for $75 and wants 'em to throw in free gas for a year.

McMillan does excellent work. It takes forever. And they don't give them away. Where's the problem?

I am disappointed, Mr. Big Stick, that you have labeled the MRC to be a bastard action. What do you know that upwards of 2,500 purchasers of this action in all its configurations do not? Please enlighten us all before MRC begins shipping so that those among us who choose to do so may cancel...

[ 09-14-2003, 05:21: Message edited by: rootbeer ]

"Bastard" in that they are not in vogue yet. That weren't a kick in MRC's nuts,but if nobone inlets for it,she's deserving of the bastard title until things change.

Now a southpaw varient of the above must certainly be deserving of the "Double Bastard" status(grin).

While I'm not personally enamoured with the action for various reasons,I wish MRC and their fans nothing but luck and good fortune................

So then Big Stick, why don't you lend a hand and mentor a young lad as to what you would do in this quest for a .375 Ultra mag in a left handed configuration, with a synthetic stock and fluted barrel. Lastly it's a mandatory controlled round feed???????

Big Stick~
Just curious. What is it about the action that causes you not be be enamored of it? You said "several things." Can you give us a few? Have you actually examined one?

Jesse,

If the MRC is your vehicle of choice and the McMillan is the stock you crave,I'd box it up post haste,send it Express Mail to Kelly and have him formulate a program to inlet the pattern you wish.

Of course that were mentioned,a coupla Posts in a row. If needed,read the words again,it is the path of least resistance to your end goal.

The solution is easy......................

"Everything that will ever be invented has been." Some U.S. Patent Ofice official around 1900 or so said this. That would make TV a bastard invention...
See Dan's post of 9/12, Jess. The stockmakers will have them available in due course. Like everything, it takes time for things to catch on.

[ 09-14-2003, 08:24: Message edited by: rootbeer ]

Bob,

My reasons for not wanting that action,would likely mean little to you and I have zero intent/reason to alter anybody's perceptions upon the offering.

The CRF feature,materials/methods employed,weight and ergonomics are amongst "several things" that do not personally suit my tastes.

All of it subjective....................

FWIW,
I think the "bastard" comment was appropriate and on several levels... In short I've had the same irritation displayed by purchasers of Springfield Armory's New XD Pistol in relation to a good fitted leather holter. We carry Galco Leather and a ton of it, however, the XD is a "bastard" platform and new to boot. Oddly enough I've also had folks get "pissed" over this and they generally wind up staying that way and stowing their pistol in their back pocket...

They generally don't make THAT many $100 holsters for a $400 pistol in general and it's an answer in search of a problem to begin with. Hence the reason I recommend a good 1911, Sig, or even a Glock to prospective buyers. They are a known quantity and everybody makes holsters for them. That said most of these folks want an XD "becuz..." and tend to deal with the shortcomings of the design and lack of acessories after the sale... Do your research before you opt for such a platform would be my suggestion...

Regards, Matt.

[ 09-14-2003, 15:10: Message edited by: Matt in Virginia ]

Bob....first you need to know that Big Stick is first, last and always a Remington fan. It isn't something he can deal with or even something he wants to deal with---it just is.

I must admit I'm also a Remington fan (for many of the reasons that 'STick is) and although I can see the benefits of a CRF-action they aren't my first choice.

But as someone says "You're mileage may vary"

JJ,
Been following this thread when I have the time. I'll add a few of my thoughts.

McMillan will not inlet for the MRC 1999 because they have no 1999 actions to draw up a program. The girls in the office will take your stock order if the action is listed in their catalog.

For technical questions you can ask for Kelly, Mike or Dick Davis. Eileen is pretty sharp also but keep in mind she works in the office (no offense, she's tops).

If you would talk to the guys at MRC, they will tell you any stock inletted for a post-64 Win 70 will work with some additional inletting. The differences are the MRC's one piece floorplate is thicker so will require a deeper inletting for the bottom metal. The receiver ring is slightly different so that is no big deal as you should be bedding your action anyways.

The bottom line is if you want a McMillan stock, just call them up and order it for a LH post 64 Win 70 like John Ricks posted. I have a MRC 1999 on order too so I ordered a McMillan Supergrade in post 64 Win 70 configuration a couple mos ago. Or if you want to wait, send your action in as suggested.

MtnHtr

I would have used the word "proprietary" as opposed to bastard. Consider some of the other illegitimate actions out here: Stolle, Nesika Bay, Cooper... I once endeavored to sell insurance. Part of the training was the philosophy in selling insurance. I remember nothing of the experience (I was not a success) save for this: a single word changes everything. A business relationship or even a friendship can hinge upon a single word. Choose them and use them wisely.

Jesse,

Some folks are unmotivated, and some are just stupid. Unfortunately, they are most often the ones who answer the phone since they aren't busy actually producing anything.

As a fellow lefty, I appreciate the predicament you face trying to line up a stock for your proprietary (the correct term) action.
McMillan is not going to build a stock for you anytime soon, even once they complete the CNC progamming; their normal delvivery time is 12 weeks.
Unless you expect to hunt in wet weather on a regular basis, consider the AcraBond laminate. They definitely will be able to satisfy your need for a stock for that action, since they are closely associated with MRC.

George

From reading all of the replies, most of which reiterate the same thing, I am going to ask John Ricks to assist me. If he can modify a Winchester stock relatively easy, then so be it. Everyone has remarked about the turn around time for Mc Millan. That was the initial reason for researching the project, to get the balls rolling, so action and stock arrive near the same time. I have no reason to wait 8 months for an action I already paid for, in order to wait an additional 4 months for a stock. Whether I believed prior posts as gosspel, I guess I did. I thought Dan or Rod had posted a post-SHOT show deal stating stockmakers a, b, c, and d were going to inlet for the actions as soon as they came out. Thought they had prototype castings a while ago. My fault, but I don't cling to the computer during buisness hours under the guise of actually working in order to catch every small breaking news developement.

For those with positive post and worthwhile ideas and leads to achive the original goal of getting me a stock for the action, thank you. For the smoke blowers, right handers, and arm chair quarterbacks...........whatever.

Research is inexpensive and always pays dividends.

Food for thought....................