The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing FFL transfer info? againGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I went into my local gun shop to have them send thier copy of FFL to a seller so I could have a rifle sent to my shop to do a tranfer. We got the seller on the phone to get his fax number to fax the FFL licence. My gun shop also wanted the sellers frist and last name for their invoice and paper work. The seller refused to give a first and last name, just said Guntraders in bla bla state. So my gun shop said they need a first and last name and they wont do the transfer. Is this correct, or was the clerk at my gunshop wrong? He did go in the back and ask the owner also and they said they wont do it if the seller wont give a name. | ||
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I think the BATF is tightening up for some reason. The shop I frequent just got audited and told me the most hassles they got were on transfers of this sort. | |||
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A lot of FFLs won't send or fax a copy of their license to anyone by another licensee, mine won't. Anyone with the first 3 and last 5 digits of a dealer's license number can verify the license is valid and confirm their address at the ATF's Ez-check website. https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/ | |||
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wrongtarget, That can make a transfer difficult or impossible. It is entirely legal for a person without an FFL to send a firearm to an FFL in another state for transfer. It does not have to go from an FFL. If I was in that position, I would want to be sure that it is going to an FFL. Some dealers create their own rules and it just makes it unnecessarily difficult for the sender. GSP 7, I would be suspicous of a sender who would not give their name. Who are you sending the money to? | |||
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Chic, I havent sent any money because I too am now abit suspicious. I will try and PM you with the details | |||
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Never mentioned a word about sending a firearm, ATF rules don't require a long gun to be sent from an FFL out of state, just to an FFL. I'm a non-licensee, if I buy a firearm from an individual in another state, my FFL will not send that seller a copy of her license unless he's a licensee, if that unlicensed seller wants to verify that my dealer has a valid license, that's what the ATF's Ez-check website is for, and I've used it dozens of times. If that's not good enough for the seller, the deal is off, I make that plain right up front before any money changes hands, I have yet to find anyone that wouldn't do it that way, most don't have a clue about the ATF website, some want something in writing, they print the page for their records. As for making up rules, those rules are readily available on the ATF's website too, there's no requirement for a non-licensee to have a copy of the receiving dealer's license to whom they're shipping the firearm, that requiremnt applies to transfers between licensees. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/index.htm
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I won't be selling a firearm to wrongtarget. I don't like dealing with paranoid individuals or firms and that includes any of the above who won't send me a copy of their FFL or the receiving FFL. I am curious about the logic involved in not sending a copy of an FFL? What possible nefarious use do they think an individual can make of one and how would that use reflect on the FFL holder? xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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GSP7 Just curious whose name is on their FFL? Anyway after hearing this and the fact that they don't seem to want to answer direct questions posted on their thread my need for one of their rilfes in declining. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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There is a bunch of paranoia floating around. Just did two transfers with two diffent FFL's in Nevada and both would not take my emailed copy of my license. They needed it faxed. Go figger, they would not even bother to verify my FFL on the ATFE website. You know what else, I have a copy of an email response from ATFE that says you need not retain a copy of the receiving FFL's license, only have to verify he is a dealer. Jim Kobe 10841 Oxborough Ave So Bloomington MN 55437 952.884.6031 Professional member American Custom Gunmakers Guild | |||
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Ramrod, I PMed you. | |||
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wrongtarget, your quotes from the ATF are accurate. Unfortunately, they not pertain to what was being discussed. You also missed what I said. A lot of FFL holders attach their own set of criteria to transactions and if the buyer can not get cooperation from the seller then the sale is off also. In this case the seller refuses to give information that is critical for the FFL holder on the other end to be able to determine where the firearm came from. THAT is the issue. I have had dealers I was sending a gun to for the buyer tell me that I had to send it through an FFL (out of state). I told them that it was not true and that an unlicensed seller could send it themselves. The receiving FFL still can ask for identification of the seller and that is not in the regs but is certainly a reasonable request. I am curous why your FFL holding dealer is reluctant to send a copoy of his license to anyone other than another license holder. They can not do anything with it, there is an address on it that pertains to the correct license holder. I am not unfamiliar with this whole issue as I have had an FFL for more than I care to remember. | |||
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Customstox, I dunno their specific reason for their practice, but they've been in business for as long as I can remember, I've lived here all my 60+yrs cept for some travel time around the world for the US Army, did business with them in the early 70s and they were well established then. They aren't unique in that practice either, there was a discussion on another forum on that very topic, lots of dealers won't send their license to anyone but another dealer, whether to protect their license or whatever, I don't know, my dealer has always done it that way, that's what they told me. I guess when we get old, that's not such a bad thing, do what works for us. Their business is their only source of income, I don't blame them for being cautious. | |||
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I've bought three firearms from out of state in the last year that needed to be transferred. Each time I used a different local FFL. Each FFL had a different procedure and varying attitudes about performing the transfer. The first dealer I used had no problem faxing a copy of his FFL, but couldn't email it. The selling FFL only had a phone/fax that had to be switched on before the fax. It was surprising complex getting the two dealers to sync up. Part of the reason was my local dealer was hesitant about performing the transfer in the first place. He clearly felt he was losing business to an out of state dealer...even though the gun I bought was long out of production. In addition, my local FFL decided it was proper to charge me sales tax. The second dealer I used agreed not to charge me sales tax and welcomed performing the transfer. But his methodology was that the FFL request had to come directly from another FFL dealer. The selling FFL had to directly email my FFL and request the FFL. I would've used this dealer again, but unfortunately he lives somewhat far away from me and he had a serious paranoia/bunker mentality that was a bit strange. The third dealer I just used had no problem with the FFL email or fax and no weird procedures. He also didn't try to charge me sales tax. I thought I had finally found a good guy to use. But unfortunately, he was a condescending know-it-all. After he realized I wasn't such a newbie and he made it clear didn't how to operate a seecamp I was buying, he also turned into a jerk. He just couldn't handle having to ask me how to operate the gun. So I'm off to find a new guy next time I need a transfer. | |||
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GSP7: BTW, if you are talking about Guntraders in Redmond, Oregon I have done a substantial amount of business with them and they did exactly what they were supposed to do. If you want the name of the head honcho, PM me. I don't feel comfortable posting it without his knowledge. I've also talked to him on the phone and he is OK in my book. If you are talking about responding to an ad on AR involving them, please PM me first. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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In addition, I just read your first post again, your FFL transfer agent is wrong, they certainly don't need a name of anyone using an FFL, except for the individual's name on the license which is there for all to see, BUT it is their business and they can add any requirements to a transfer they want, as long as they are legal. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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The reason this entire FFL transferring thing is out of hand and difficult to understand is because individual FFL holders are allowed to add extra requirements. If they all just what ATF required everyone including the FFL holders would be better off. These "add on's" added by individual FFL holders add nothing but aggrevation. I am pretty sure no FFL holder ever lost their license because they only followed the basic ATF rules. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Gatogordo, I find your positioning interesting in that you are requiring greater regulation of the transaction than the law requires for you as a seller. With respect to nefarious activities, if someone has a copy of an FFL they are now a lot closer to creating a forged/fake FFL. Will it get the original holder in trouble probably not...would it create a headache for the orignal holder...probably. It is common practice for ATF agents in Northern California to advise FFL holders to not send a copy of their FFL to anyone but another FFL holder...and why might that be...becuase the law doesn't require it. I find this whole thing interesting because the gun community generally feels it is over regulated yet so many folks increase their own "regulations" by requiring FFL copies that they don't need. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike: Find it interesting all you want, I want a copy of the FFl, right or wrong, sometimes shipping agents want one if you're sending a firearm AND even if they don't, a copy of the FFL is an easy way to keep track of where the gun went if I am ever asked, since my name would be in the chain of possession. If some FFL holder in Ca or anywhere else doesn't want to send me one, that's their call and their right, my call is I don't have to send them a gun either. With respect to nefarious activities, if someone creates a fake FFL, then all the guy who is transferring the gun has to do is to check on the ATFs website and the guy with the fake FFL is going to do some serious jail time simply because he has to have a "good" wrong address on it, or he wouldn't be able to receive shipped items. I think most crooks are smart enough to steal firearms before trying that route. I don't like regulations anymore than the next guy, as a matter of fact, I disobey them quite often, but since I live in a highly regulated society, then I'm going to cover my ass when I can and if that insults someone's sensibilities, so be it. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Let's see... Over regulated transaction where the regulations arguably violate US constitution ("infinged" is a pretty low standard). Regulating agency has some history of inconsistent interpretation and discretionary enforcement... Affected community donates millions of dollars to combat further regulation. Affected community consistently strives to have the related criminal behavior punished not more regulation of the transaction. Response by selected members of the community to is to over regulate themselves and place the a burden of compliance on themsleves well beyond the existing excessive regulation. ...makes perfect sense to me. Maybe I am not paranoid enough and I should ask for a copy of Smith & Wesson's FFL when I ship my pistol in for warranty repair. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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