A while back I inherited a 1963 model Sako Forester in 243 from my Dad. The gun always shot minute of pie plate from the picnic table and took several whitetails but my Dad,being a Depression Era guy, didn't put 40 rounds thru the rifle in all the years he had it so it is mint and has been well maintained.Bore and crown are good.I decided to use it this year so I tried it out and found the scope had died (Redfield 2-7)
I purchased a Leupold VX2 3-9x40 and took it to a well known Houston gunsmith to be mounted.He called several days later and told me the scope was defective and wouldn't track or hold zero.I retrieved it,procured another new Leupold and had him mount it.He had no problems with the second scope.I took the rifle to the range and proceded to fire Federal Premium Sierra 100 GK's,Winchester 100 gr PP's and 2 kinds of reloads. The first three shots were loosely arranged 4" high.no problem,It had a sparkling clean barrel and had only been boresighted,afew fouling rounds andit would settle down.Ha! Three more loosely flocked to the same area.I adjusted down 16 clicks .the first shot was in the top of the bullseye.The second was 4 inches left and the third followed it.this is all with 5 minutes or so between shots so the barrel got slightly warm but never even close to hot. To shorten an already much too long story, the rifle would throw one near the bull and 2 at varying distances to the left.I adjusted 8 clicks right.It still threw one or 2 near the bull and the rest 2-4" off to the left.I am not Tony Boyer,but I can shoot a decent group at 100 yards from a bench. I did it with 2 other rifles during this session.I guess my question is do I have a bedding problem or did I get 2 bad Leupold scopes in a row?All screws were tight,but the trigger pull got substantially heavier and creepier as the session went on.The smith did me a favor doing the second scope on short notice as it is DEER SEASON in Texas and gunsmith time is a rare commodity.Is there anything a home gunbutcher can do? I'm beginning to think Leupold is resting on their laurels.Any help from this august body of knowledge would be appreciated.

C16,

I suppose you could have gotten a bad Leupold the first time but 2 in a row would be doubtful. The bedding, or lack of it, could cause the inconsistencies you mention. Look the crown over again but this time real good under good lighting. Sometimes subtle damage to the crown is hard to detect, even by a trained eye. Crown, trigger and bedding are considered the big 3 areas to address when looking to improve the accuracy of a factory rifle. Make sure each item is correct and then turn your attention to your loads.

Good luck,

Malm

G.Malmborg
thank you for the response.I had looked at the crown with a 4x illuminated magnifier.I couldn't detect any defects .This is a flat cut crown and the rifling is undamaged at the intersection.I downloaded the Sako owners manual and it gives instructions on adjusting the trigger.Do you have any additional tips on this operation?The trigger was fairly crisp initially but got progressively worse.I did have some moly slide on it as moly has worked on other rifles in the past. I believe i could pull off tip bedding the stock,but would have to have the action bedding done professionally. The factory inletting is very good and i would rather not free float such a thin barrel .What really sux is that I shot a 60 year old sporterized 1903 springfield with a cheap simmons scope that put three rounds in the bullseye touching.I jokingly asked if i could rent that old boat paddle for the deer season.The owner just smiled at me.The original conversion was done in 1955 and with one scope or another the rifle has always shot like that according to him.It has the original military trigger.

just had another revelation.I was decapping the brass i put thru this rifle today.the factory loaded Federal cases would grudgingly allow a 100 grain Sierra pro hunter to enter the neck.the primer was not flattened.the winchester cases I reloaded with 40.0 grains of imr 4350 and a 100 grain Sierra would allow it to pass fairly easily. Primer was not flattened. The factory Winchester cases with 100 gr power points would not allow the bullet to enter and primers were flattened but not to the extreme.I thought it was recoiling fairly hard for an 8lb .243.It had a sharper recoil than the 1903 Springfield I mentioned in the previous post.Could the tight neck damage the rifle or hurt accuracy? Am I into neck turning or should the chamber be reamed again? The cases have .001 runout on a Sinclair concentricity gauge. The case length on the fired reload rounds is 2.035",exactly what the unfired cases were trimmed to. No stretch at all. ???????

hit the wrong button. sorry.

[ 11-05-2003, 08:21: Message edited by: covey16 ]

C16,

There are two adjustment screws on these triggers. The upper screw w/nut is for the trigger spring tension, and the lower screw is for the trigger over travel adjustment. The only way to change the sear engagement on these triggers is through careful grinding or stoning, and this is not recommended for a do it yourself job.

Sako rifles are notorious for good factory inletting. The recoil lug area could use some epoxy bedding to help hold the action in place during recoil. The addition of pillars will help keep the action level.

Do a search on this site for bedding information. There have been a great deal of discussions on this forum regarding accuracy improvements. You should be able to find most anything you will ever need here, on this forum.

Good luck,

Malm

Malm
thanks again for the opinion. I think i will try the tip bedding and trigger adjustment. I have a post on the reloading forum referring to the tight chamber question. I think i'll be opening up the chamber neck. Mabe Berger makes a .241 diameter bullet that upsets to .243 when fired.It would be cheaper.

C16,

If your neck is on the tight side, the cost to recut the neck is about $50-$75. Forget about trying to get a .241 bullet to upset enough so as to perform in the rifle. Do it the right way, open the neck, IF, that is what it needs. To be sure, you would need to cast and mic the chamber. You can't always tell how things are by the fired case.

Malm

One thing no one suggested was to check for severe copper fouling in the barrel. Use Sweet's 7.62 solvent, if a patch comes out blue, there is fouling, how much depends on how long you work on it. May take a couple of hours of wetting, waiting, patching, wetting, patching, etc. Until it comes out clear.
Turning those tight necks on the brass is cheap, and you only do it once.

double check all scope mounts,must be tight. spray the action with WD 40.Scrub the bore with a good brush and #9 let #9 soak over night. Try bullets in the 85 gr wt. range. (reloading post)> the neck should be ok. some brass will spring back that it is hard to get a bullet into the fired case. Try a handload of IMR4350 in the area or 42.o gr. of powder, w/ sierra 85gr hpbt OAL of 2.640"(if not into rifling and fit the magazine.ccibr2 primer.

[ 11-05-2003, 18:02: Message edited by: 243winxb ]

That tight of a chamber at the neck is a safety problem. One Lyman handbook mentions this as a danger in foreign made rifles and Jack Belk has brought up problems with 243 Win chambered rifles as well.

I would not fire the rifle until a gunsmith looks at it.

If you have a mic. read the diameters of some fired necks and loaded rounds for us. Measure them to tenths. Tell us what brand each case is.

to all
thanks for the responses.Malm,i was joking about the Berger bullets.They don't make such and if i asked them to they would laugh at me.I have some cerrosafe and will try to cast the chamber today.
Jed rifle was thoroughly cleaned with Shooters Choice and Kroil before session. I am looking at neck turning if chamber dimensions are within Sammi minimums. 243win, I may try 85's,but rifle is basically a 150 yard deer gun and 85's may be a little light and frangible for what I'm doing.mabe better to hit vitals with 85 than miss with a 100.Savage99 case dimensions follow neck od of fired cases: Win factory consistent .2785,Win reloads .2785-.2790,Fed factory consistent .2790. base to datum point all 3 types of cases 1.6220 +-.0005.I don't have a ball micrometer or proper tools to measure id so any neck id info would be suspect other than bullet drop test.The Sierras are consistent .243.They measure almost like match bullets and I have measured many match bullets. .Iwill search for JBELK's post on 243's.As a long time lurker,Jbelk,Malm,customstox,yourself and several others always get my full attention when they post. Hope Jbelks health allows him to get back to work. many of us have been thru low times.sometimes character is all you have left and he seems to have that covered.I wish him well.If he would take on a 53 year old who once epoxied all of his fingers together i would go help him.

[ 11-06-2003, 00:55: Message edited by: covey16 ]

i did some additional searchs of this forum as you guys suggested.as a result,i measured some of the fired cases more carefully.i think what i have is a short neck as opposed to a tight neck.
i measured the cases that showed the worst primer flattening and here is what i found. the factory loaded winchester 100 gr power points had a fired case length of 2.0435". The neck dia.from the shoulder to within approx. .0200 of the neck is
.2795. the last .0200 is at .2735.my question is there any harm in trimming back some cases to 2.015 or so and using the rifle until spring when gunsmith time is more available .At that time i could get the chamber reamed.I hate having a rifle sit in the shop for months knowing it's not going to be worked on. would trimming cases back to 2.015 or more hurt accuracy. of course the rifle is shooting 5" groups now so a change that
is less than optimum but safe would be ok. How short have you guys that have .243 Win gone on case trimming? HELP!

The last .020 has .001 difference between fired and unfired rounds and a new bullet will not fit into a fired case with resulting effects mentioned in previous posts.the rest of the case neck has .006 difference which is snug but acceptable.
I need to trim to at least 2.023 just to keep from eventually blowing myself up.Another couple of thousands probably wouldn't hurt.I could make reloads to this dimension,but factory loads are out for now.

Covey,

I seems that you have done some very good detective work. Try the cut back necks with a light load of course and work up.

Savage 99
thanks for the response.I think i'll try trimming to 2.020,38.0gr imr 4350 (down from 40.0),rem 9 1/2,col 2.672, jumping ,003 to lands.I have some 100gr nosler partitions but i don't think i need to add anything to the equation at this time.I realize handloading is the ultimate in being responsible for your own actions,but what do you think?also,do you or anyone else have any comments on the headspace measurements? 1.622" casehead to datum for fired case in this rifle. 1.630 sammi chamber spec.I don't know if you have gunsmithing experience or not but i would appreciating hearing from you or someone who does on the headspace issue.The factory were less than 1.622 so i figure 1.622 must be somewhere near ok.thanks again.

What twist is your 243? Is there a possibility that your bullets are too heavy and not being stabilized? Did not see that info in a quick scan of previous posts.
Ron

1-10. bullets didn't keyhole and appeared to enter squarely.The 1-8's and 1-9 are a fairly recent phenomenon.I wish i had a Kreiger 1-8, there are even bigger bullets than 100gr.Also the Pro Hunters are flat based and have a fairly short bearing surface.The rifle needs to stay externally stock.thanks for your response.

C16,

How does the bolt close on a factory new case? Pull the firing pin and try it. If your fired cases are measuring 1.622, then you have too short a chamber which means you must lean on the bolt handle to get it to close.

Headspace measurements for the .243 chamber are 1.630 for the Go gauge. The bolt should just close on this. The No Go gauge measures 1.634. By rights, the bolt should not close on this gauge. Check the feel of a new factory case and post the results. Without the gun in hand to cast and measure, anything beyond this will be a guess.

Good luck,

Malm

Malm
I tried 2 Federal Premium and 2 winchester powerpoints. Bolt feel was similiar to closing bolt with no round in the chamber. I measured 5 Federal rounds and 5 winchester rounds that had not been fed thru the gun with a Sterett 721 digital caliper and a Stoney Point .4oo datum headspace attachment. The results follow:
winchester=1.6235,1.6220,1.6240,1.6220and 1.627 base to datum length.
Federal Premium=1.6245,1.6245,1.6240,1.6235 and 1.6235 base to datum. In my limited reloading experience(only 24 years just a rookie compared to some here and i still learn something new everytime i dial into this forum))i find .001 spring back in winchester brass a fairly consistent phenomenon.Federal tends to be softer and not spring back so much.Fired Winchester cases were 1.6220 with springback 1.6320 which is ballpark with the unfired cases.
I try to avoid wishful thinking,but it seems that with the shortened necks mentioned above rounds should be safe and get me thru the hunting season if accuracy proves to be acceptable.I completely understand that only i am responsible for what i drop the hammer on and i also stand to be corrected by those with more experience than i.
What do you think?

Covey16,

I am not sure i am qualified to add anything here, but you might want to try some European ammo through this rifle, just out of interest.

I have a gut feeling that the chamber although perhaps a safety issue, is not your accuracy problem.

I am not overly familar with Sako's that age as mine is the L591. I assume its got a pressure point under the barrel rather than free floated?

If so, I would start looking here for uneven bearing pressure. What mounts does it have on? I have seen some earlier Sako mounts that attached with screws on both sides giving you ineffect a windage adjustment. If you have those, I would seriously think about getting something different as they can give you lots of problems.

I use the newer Sako Optiloks and while a little high, they are pretty bomb proof.

Can I ask you why you took the rifle to a gunsmith have a scope mounted?

I ask this because I would also try a different scope. Two faulty Leupolds? Unlikely, but for your own confidence, you need to rule it out completely.

Regards,

Pete

[ 11-06-2003, 11:58: Message edited by: Pete E ]

Pete E
It's an L579.
It has a fully bedded barrel with a pressure point.I'm hoping to epoxy the pressure point and see if that helps.It has the Redfield dovetail mounts,but they were worked over(epoxy and locktite)and appear to be stable.If they are the problem,I have heard many good things about Opti-Locs and they will probably be my choice.
I had the gunsmith mount the scope in order to boresight with the scope near optical center and test the tracking of the adjustments with an optical collamitor.I don't own one of those. He then bump tests it to see if it holds adjustment.
European ammo (Lapua,Norma,etc)is expensive over here.Also,I reload and can produce rounds superior to production rounds.The .243 is new to me but i have reloaded various other rounds for many years.
You wouldn't happen to have any soldiers running arround your mountains doing selection would you?
I was briefly acquainted with 4 of the guys that made it thru many years ago in Belize. They were fine fellows and I was proud to know them ,though they were goofy about brewing tea.If you hid their Esbit stove,they would find many cruel and creative ways to make you regret it.
Thanks for the response Pete

Covey16,

Their homeground is a bit to the south of me, but I know the area well. On the whole, a great bunch of guys, but collectively short of the odd screw! Not that I would say that to their faces of course!

Back to your problem...I tried free floating the barrel on my Sako and as you suggested, it did not like it at all.

But what it did allow me to do is fix in a moveable pressure point which i could move to "tune" the barrel vibrations/group size.

I used a length of rubber cut from a car innertube. If you want to try this, cut it about 4" long (so it hangs out side the barrel channel) and about 1 3/4" wide so you can fold it double thicness if required.

This looks terrible and makes gunsmiths cringe, but allows you to slide it back and forth to find the right location. My varying thickness you you alter upwards pressure which also makes a difference.

I confess that despite my intentions to glass a proper pressure pad back in my rifle, when I found the sweet spot I simply trimmed off the excess rubber and it has been shooting well ever since...

Regards,

Pete

[ 11-06-2003, 16:29: Message edited by: Pete E ]

Pete E
Wonderful idea about temporary pressure point.
Some arround here use o rings and such to tune Ruger #1's that won't shoot.I will do that first.
I may have to use something thinner due to tight barrel channel.I wonder if silicone sealer would work? I could apply it shoot a few rounds and then if it didn't work i could scrape it out and apply in a slightly different location.I need to pull the stock and look at the bedding anyway ,so i will try it at that time.It is possible that I may get to the range tomorrow or Saturday. I'll let you know what happens. Thanks again.

[ 11-06-2003, 22:03: Message edited by: covey16 ]

C16,

Case spring back is no phenomena. The brass expands as it gets hot and contracts as it cools. Heavy or thick brass will respond differently to heat than thin brass. The hotter the chamber gets, then less amount that spring back occurs.

Without knowing the exact headspace dimension of a weapon, I don't know how one could determine the exact amount of spring back which would naturally occurs with their brass.

If you want to know the relationship between your ammo and your weapons headspace, then using the Stoney point setup, measure a round, write it down and then fire it. Re-measure the fired case and note the difference. The before and after measurments should be within a couple of thousandths.

The difference between Go and NoGo in your .243 is .004. Anything over this might be a cause for concern in safety as well as accuracy.

Good luck,

Malm

Malm
I certainly didn't mean to infer that case contraction was something i had discovered.It was just that i have reloaded and fired thousands of rounds thru an AR15 service rifle which in match form is dependent on consistent case contraction for proper operation .my conclusion has been that Winchester consistently holds to .001 contraction in .223.Remington and federal tend to be softer and contract inconsistently and less.
I thought i had included headspace comparisons.
Here it is.I'll just do the reloads to save time.
Winchester new case fl resized with Forster die before first firing
unfired base to datum consistent 1.6220
fired 1.6235 consistent
case dia immediately above extractor groove
fired .4680 consistent
unfired .4630 consistent
These measurements are based on 5 examples of each.
I don't know if it applies,but in a .223 match barrel with a Wylde chamber (rather a loose chambering for a match type rifle) cases don't generally reach maximum expansion until arround the 3rd firing. Hope this helps. would like to use rifle for the short term,but realize i probably need a good man with the proper reamer.
thanks for your response.

Originally posted by C16
I certainly didn't mean to infer that case contraction was something i had discovered.It was just that i have reloaded and fired thousands of rounds thru an AR15 service rifle which in match form is dependent on consistent case contraction for proper operation .my conclusion has been that Winchester consistently holds to .001 contraction in .223.Remington and federal tend to be softer and contract inconsistently and less.

I know that. Sometimes when I reply, I do so as if others folks who might be following along, might not understand these things so I appologize for any inference. Anyway, a consistant spring back of .001 is great.

If you posted "before" and "after" data, please forgive me. When I see a bunch of numbers, I flash back to high school math class and ignore them. Actually I get so busy around here at times, that I tend to sometimes hurry through these posts at a pretty fast clip and have been known to skip over a thing or two while doing so. I don't mean to do it, it's just that It is easy to get distracted around here. Funny thing, I did this all through school as well. Hmmm.


Based on the "before and after" measurements you provided, and I looked this time, you are operating well within the "safe" headspace range for the .243. Sorry for the confusion.

Good luck,

Malm

Malm
no offense taken.
when someone of your experience checks my work I tend to overanalize their responses.
thanks for your patience and helpful responses.
I will load up a few short trimmed cases and see what happens.I emailed a local experienced gunsmith and will have him ream it when he has time.
Thanks again

Anytime...

brother Covey,

I would bet my right nut that there isn't anything inherently wrong with your rifle. You have done some extensive searching, had some well meaning advice handed down and all is worthwhile. But, stop and think about the very basic things first.

One fellow told you to clean the bore. Trust me, this is the very best advice and what I would do before I did anything else. I mean clean it spotless. I won't tell you how I do it because then everybody jumps up and screams everything short of a pandemic will result if you it my way, but choose a method and clean that bore until all the blue is gone. I would be more concerned about powder fouling than jacket fouling. Powder fouling sets up like iron and is hell to get it all out, but work at it till you do.

Reassemble your rifle, noting the screws go home and nothing is loose. Check your scope mounts again....I don't care who the 'smith is or what his reputation is, check'em again.

Now go shoot it with some factory ammo..get a couple boxes of the same lot numbers so you know it's all the same. See what it does for a couple 5 shot groups. Then, remove the stock and add a matchbook shim under the barrel at the forearm as you mentioned bedding. try it again. Anything drastic take place? if so, you're onto something. if not. Look somewhere else. Bad triggers are a pain in the ass but can be mastered.....all of us kids managed to shoot pretty good with those cheap 22 single shots we started out with...because it was all we had and 'learned' to shoot them.

I have owned a number of Sakos and all of them have been stellar performers. I have a deluxe grade L579 in 243 that I just picked up a couple weeks ago and the trigger sucks on it too. It is the first bad sako trigger I have ever owned....that's my experience, your's may vary. My advice is to just buy a Timney replacement and be done with it. they have always worked for me with no hassles.

I am no fan of the 243 cartridge but it is capable of fine accuracy. Most of them I have played with prefer lighter bullets...try 85 and 90 grain bullets. You may be experiencing a stabilization problem. Don't be afraid of a lighter bullet for deer, i have killed a slew of deer with my 6PPC using 60 grain Sierras.

Good luck.

Jumptrap
Thanks for the response.
Did three cycles of Shooters Choice copper remover and Kroil prior to range trip.Cleaned after 10 rounds with Hoppes Benchrest at range after initial bad results.Hate to break out the Tornado brush but mabe that would help.Factory ammo was a major problem,see previous posts.Fired factory Winchester 100 gr Power Points had fired length of 2.0435 with the last .0200 crimped to an id that would not allow a new Sierra 100 PH to enter neck.Handloads trimmed to 2.035 will allow bullet drop though neck is still snug.Chamber will allow 100 gr Sierra to be seated out to 2.6850 dead length so the throat and leade seem to be ok.Haven't loaded any yet, but did check Nosler 100 Partition and they have 2.7095 dead length.
Trigger pull is the reason i mentioned shooting Springfield sporter in previous post.good rifle crappy trigger.I think putting Moly Slide on trigger is part of the problem.Sear and cocking piece engagement surfaces appear clean and sharp.JBelk opined a while back that Sako triggers are some of the best Mauser style triggers ever made.He didn't hold Timneys in as high regard.
Forend bedding seems to be a consistent theme and I will try your suggestion. How much forend pressure do you think is necessary for a pencil barrel deer rifle?
Yeah,i'm no real .243 fan either,but rifle has great sentimental value and I want to keep it as stock as possible. If I had my druthers ,it would be a 7-08 in short order.
I have culled few East Texas does (small) with an AR15 Service Rifle and 64gr PP. Worked very well,but I prefer a little more horsepower.
Anyway,thanks for the helpful tips . Let me know what you think.

Covey16,

from your careful measurements it appears certain that your chamber's neck is short. Shorten brass to fit temporaily for reloads and re-neck asap.

I believe the answer to your accuracy problem is contained within your first post. A dead Redfield variable and a dead Leopold and another that won't hold POI. You're scope is bound up in your rings. You need to have them lapped. Alternatively check to see if there are any Burris Signature rings (posi-align) available.

A fouled barrel or less than ideal load will result in a group opening up slightly. The groups you describe are the result of bedding or scope.

Check to see that your guard screws are tight. However as 2 scopes have died and this one is not responding predictably to windage adjustments, fix the rings and replace this scope. The damage is done and it too will die.

WallyW
Very good point about scope.I am going to get Peter Pieper to check that when I take the rifle to him.The gunsmith I had mount scope is basically a restoration expert,but has done good work for me in the past and the shop has been arround for many years.I asked for scope to be optically centered and stress free.I ASSumed that he would know what that involved.Gunsmiths can be touchy about too many suggestions from the peanut gallery.Pieper builds benchrest rifles and would know these things automatically .Thanks again for the response. I hope that is not the problem,but I have a strong feeling that it is.
Covey16

I took the Sako to a local gunsmith recommended by
Gato Gordo. Pete Pieper. Nice guy. Young. He took a glance with bore scope. Every thing looked good except for slight roughness at the end of the throat.He is going to run a finish reamer thru it,check scope tracking,relieve barrel channel and tip bed.Being a benchrest guy, he wanted to free float barrel,but I requested he not do that due to thin barrel and importance of maintaining stock appearance.He felt he could accomplish both objectives.I'm impressed with the guy so far.His turnarround date is short, so I'll let you all know.

I'll lay folding money your recoil lug is bottoming in its recess and the flat behind it is hanging in air. The best bedding prcedure I've found yet is a full action bed, 2" of the barrel, and a "slight" tip bed with the thin barrelled guns. Varminters don't need it.

Anyway I hope your smith sorts it out. Keep us posted on developments.

Cheers

pete

Pete
The fix you describe is almost exactly what he is going to do.He had a fine looking Stolle hunter class rifle he built sitting on his bench.If his work on hunting rifles is as good,I should have a good report.Only the fact it belonged to my dad keeps it from becoming a 7-08.
You wouldn't want to adopt a 53 year old retired telco engineer would you? My uncle Tommy was based in Johannesburg thru most of the 1950's and he always said South Africa had the finest country and people on earth (except Texas of course ) I don't eat much and will work for game permits.

For those of you that asked for an update:
I got a call Wednesday night from Pete Pieper (gunsmith).He said I could pick up my rifle today.
I couldn't believe it. He must have felt sorry for an old man.
I drove to Hempstead and picked up the rifle this morning.
Here's what he found.
He finished reamed the chamber to SAMMI minimum.
Pete said it cut metal in the shoulder,neck and leade. The neck area of the chamber prior to the leade was tapered and that cleaned up fine.
The windage adjustment in the scope mount was off and when set up properly, took 1 full turn of windage adjustment off the scope.Scope is now optically centered and stress free.
He bedded the front of the receiver in epoxy,redid the tip hump in epoxy and resealed the relief work he did on the barrel channel.
He wanted to free float the whole barrel, but I requested that he didn't. He adjusted the rest of the bedding of the receiver (actually did it with a milling machine). He even took the stock off to show me the work. It was very well done.
Now for the important part.
I stopped by the rifle range on the way back to Houston .
1st 3 shot from a dirty barrel were an actual group of approx 1 1/2" about 1" above the aiming point and centered.
I adjusted 4 clicks down fired 3 shots and the group moved down about an inch.Just like it's supposed to.
I fired 3 more into a white 1" square on the target and all 3 fit in the square.
This was all in a 20 mph half value wind.
Now that I can work up some better reloads it may get even better but I am pretty happy as things stand now.
This is not an advertisement for Pete as he was recommended by Gatogordo and I had never met him before in my life.
He even took time to show me his shop and several projects he had going.
One was a Ruger #1 he was accurizing and converting to 300 ultra Mag.
Being left handed,I tried to steal it,but he caught me.
Again not an advertisement but I am combining this response with the "Houston Accuracy Gunsmith " post that started this.

[ 11-14-2003, 06:49: Message edited by: covey16 ]