We've got our big gun show coming up next week and I want to pick up an action around which to build my first custom rifle--I'm thinking a .358 Norma. I hear so much about actions ie."You've got to get the 36 Bulgarian 98 with ser. #'s over 1,000,000 the rest are junk..." etc. so much that I'm afraid some slick character will pawn off a sub-par action on me due to my lack of knowledge. Are there a few solid choices with which I can't go wrong and, because money is tight, are reasonably priced? I want a 98 based LA. Thanks in advance for the help.
Posts: 767 | Location: Seeley Lake Montana | Registered: 17 April 2002
IMO, the best 98 Mauser action on which to build a custom rifle is the FN Commercial. By starting with a commercial action, you avoid much of the work needed to bring a military action up to the same standards as the commercial. The only things you might want to add are a M-70 type safety and possibly a hinged straddle floorplate/triggerguard, but those things really aren't necessary and add a lot to the cost. FN's were used on a lot of different guns and are thus fairly common, are finished out a little nicer than Mark X's and can be bought reasonably.
Posts: 9487 | Location: Texas Hill Country | Registered: 11 January 2002
You ask a question for which there is no answer. There are at least a dozen very good M-98 actions available but many were ruined by the arsenals, more were ruined by hammer mechanic home 'smiths and others are too nice to take apart.
You must know first what action were made right, then the variations of those. (Some VZ-24s are among the best ever made....others of the same model can be dangerous even if brand new.)
In any case the 358 Norma is a bad choice for a M-98 sporter. They take a special mag box, alteration of the feed rails and follower, and don't give enough ballistic advantage over a 338-06 or 35 Whelen...which are drop-in simple.
I have several thousand words writter on the M-98. If you want them I'll email them to you.
FWIW- If you are heart set on a .358 Norma. Don't use a mil M98. As others have said, the cost of the gunsmithing involved will be more than buying a better/more suitable action in the first place. I've bought FN's magnum actions at times for $200 and M-70's for $300. You will save yourself many dollars and lots of grief if you follow this advise.-Rob
Posts: 6314 | Location: Las Vegas,NV | Registered: 10 January 2001
That's an interesting comment you made about the vz24. I'd always heard nothing but good about them. Then again, I don't have near the experience you do.
If it isn't too much trouble I'd appreciate if you could email me the info on the M98's.
Thanks,
Mike
Posts: 4865 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002
I've had nice rifles built on VZ-24's, military FN's, Columbians, Yugoslavian's, ad nausium. As long as you stick with a standard head size caliber all you need to do is add a single stage trigger for $50 and a low safety for $25. Add $25 to drill and tap and another $25 to turn down the bolt for a scope and you've got $125 plus the price of the action.
If you want to open up the bolt face add another $25 or so and opening up the rails will cost you anywhere from $25 - $50. So for a "Magnum" caliber you've got $175 - $200 plus the price of the action.
98's get their strength more from their inherent design than do most other actions. The heat treating issue that is so important with 1903 Springfields (hi vs low number) isn't nearly as important with 98 Mausers.
Please include me among those who were intrigued by your comment about VZ24's and would like you to pass along what you know about some being dangerous. A couple of years ago I picked one up at Big Five for $69.95 intending to make a project of it (though leaving the hard tasks to a real gunsmith.) The action is number R4 4746 (bolt SN not matching, which I couldn't care less about since I was going to re-barrel it anyway.) IT's from the CZ Brno factory.
The VZ-24 action was made for about 10 years. As with all war-time production, the quality went downhill as the time needed to make the rifles got shorter.
Late in WW-II the VZs were just slapped together without a care to fitting or most tolorences. The very last bolts made didn't have a guide rib even though the action was still cut for one.
The Big Five Sports VZs can be pretty good even though they've been rebuilt at least once by an arsenal.
Look for a rounded edge on the bolt at the extractor collar. If it's there the bolt has been buffed badly and needs replaceing to make a nice rifle out of it. I've bought several of the latest batch of VZ-24s that were badly messed up on the outside of the action but the interior made them worth the bucks.
The best of the VZ-24 actions have BRUNO on the front ring with some horizonal lines on both sides. The worst ones had a rough turned section around the front of the front ring and a rampart lion crest.
Creating a high-quality sporter from a military action is a very expensive proposition, much more expensive than purchasing a high-quality commercial action, even a fairly expensive one like a Sako.
If you just want to do it for the love of accomplishment, that's fine. But in most instances, taking a good salvage commercial action as your starting point is much more satisfactory. Like Robingunbuilder says, cruise the aisles with your eye out for a beat-up Winchester 70, FN, Sako, or whatever suits your fancy and you'll be done months sooner and dollars cheaper.
Posts: 13266 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001
Sounds like good advice. I was hoping there was a way to take a $100 action and start from there but it sounds penny wise/pound foolish. Am I safe in assuming that the easiest conversion would be to find an action already set up for the belted H&H .532 case like a 338 win, 300 win etc? Seems like that would simplify things. I've been drooling over the new Montana Rifleman adaptation of the W70 action--I could get that barrelled ready to stock for around $700 new. Lotta money. Thanks all. JBelk--BTW I'd really like the M98 info that you had. Could you forward it to jaykolbe@hotmail.com ? I'd sure like to read it.
[ 08-03-2002, 01:26: Message edited by: snowcat ]
Posts: 767 | Location: Seeley Lake Montana | Registered: 17 April 2002
I wasn't aware that there was so much difference among the variations within the VZ 24 model. Jack, if your treatise on the M98 discusses some of these variations with suggestions of what to look for in examining such actions, I would also be most appreciative to receive a copy for my library. I've tried to compile a good set of reference materials related to the Mauser actions, but I realize that there's a lot of information that isn't included in the primary reference books, particularly as it relates to using the actions for custom rifles.
BTW, Jack, I'm happy to read on varioius recent posts that your eye surgery was apparently successful. I'm still interested in having you, at some time in the not too distant future, do some Mauser fitting and assembly work for me, and I would prefer not to have any cross-eyed, one-eyed, or blurry-eyed machinists spinning my 09 Argentine action or premium barrel in their lathe. It's good to have you back, I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts.
Russ
Posts: 54 | Location: Fort Collins, CO, USA | Registered: 27 December 2001
JBelk, it looks like I neglected to add my address to that last post. If you don't mind sending out a copy of that M98 information, you can sent it to rtmoore3@attbi.com. Thanks.
Posts: 54 | Location: Fort Collins, CO, USA | Registered: 27 December 2001
quote:Originally posted by snowcat: We've got our big gun show coming up next week and I want to pick up an action around which to build my first custom rifle--I'm thinking a .358 Norma. I hear so much about actions ie."You've got to get the 36 Bulgarian 98 with ser. #'s over 1,000,000 the rest are junk..." etc. so much that I'm afraid some slick character will pawn off a sub-par action on me due to my lack of knowledge. Are there a few solid choices with which I can't go wrong and, because money is tight, are reasonably priced? I want a 98 based LA. Thanks in advance for the help.
Excellent and very helpful info, as always. I can narrow my search quite a bit now. We'll just have to see what surfaces at the show or, at worst, wait till after elk season and pick up a servicable commercial action someone sells off for Christmas money.
JBelk--thanks a ton for the 98 reading...I'll be chewing on that for some time. Can you recommend a primary source, ie. a published book, that goes into detail on both the history and smithing of 98 actions?
Thanks a million guys!
Posts: 767 | Location: Seeley Lake Montana | Registered: 17 April 2002
The best book on the Mauser I know of is Mauser Bolt Action Rifles by Ludwig Olson. It's strickly history and a definitive work on the designing, developement and production of Mauser rifles.
There have been several books and pamphlets written on gunsmithing the M98. I've thumbed through several at gunshows and immediately found something I knew was untrue or just recycled myth so I've never bought one.
The M-98 was the perfectly designed bolt action from 1905 to 1935. They are a facinating study in "Worst-Case Scenario" designing.
Don't give up on the idea of a Mauser based custom model -- just use Jack's input to modify you idea. If you leave the belted mag out, and go with the 35 Whelen, the proposition becomes (dare I say it) affordable. The only things you need are a barrel (& gunsmith to headspace it), a new safety of some sort, bolt handle, and D & T for scope mounts. You would also need lots of elbow grease to hand polish your sow's ear into a silk purse. It's fun, and can be done for < $200 over the cost of the action.
I would appreciate it if i could also have a copy of your information on M98 action.
I have what i believe to be a yugoslavian remarked german k98 action. How does the quality/strength of it compare to the VZ-24. I want to build a 338 win from it.
Jack, maybe you should just post the info, and those of us who are interested could just copy it. It would probably be easier then answering all the Emails. Just a thought. Take care. - Dan
Posts: 5285 | Location: Alberta | Registered: 05 October 2001
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