Scott



I am not doing anything. I am not a machinist, and I am not an engineer. I am leaving everything up to my friend who is a very very talented cnc machinist. As for all of this stuff about design and engineering, the way I figure it, Peter Paul Mauser already did all of the engineering and design work, and the steel companies and heat treaters have kicked in with their work. If 4140 heat treated to Rockwell 40 works for Winchester, it will certainly be good enough for me.



By the way, a G.33/40 is actually a scaling down rather than a scaling up. Esentially, what I would like to come close to duplicating is the action that Pete Grizel made and sold some years ago, which was basically a small ring mauser action.

Blue

Peter and Paul Mauser... brothers... not Peter Paul Mauser, singular...



receivers that don't register on the C scale... had to go to B... LMFAO if it doesn't register on the C scale, it's HARDER... B is used for alum and BRASS.... I hear even some plastics...



So, Blue, who's not a machinst or engineer, you are telling us that a (presumably) fired action was no harder than brass?



too rich



jeffe



here's a great quote



Rockwell Hardness Scales

Several different Rockwell scales are used for various materials and hardnesses. The most common are the Rockwell B and Rockwell C scales. The Rockwell B system incorporates a 1/16th inch diameter steel ball, with a load of 100kg for softer materials such as aluminium alloys and materials of similar hardness. Harder materials such as cast irons are measured using the Rockwell C scale, which uses a 120� diamond cone with a 150kg load.

http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1404

Jeffoso



Sorry, please take a look at page 1 of Olsons book. You will see that it is Peter Paul Mauser. His brother's name was Wilhelm Mauser.



AS for the B scale, I am not telling you anything. I am repeating what the professional Heat Treater told me. I think he knew what he was talking about. Moreover, I have read a few articles in Rifle Magazine that also refer to some Mauser actions testing on the B scale. For example, see page 18 of the Sept Oct 1981 issue of Rifle. Article by Clarence Ellis, on Mauser Heat Treat. He lists numerous numerous actions that he had tested while he was a foreman at Golden State Arms. Many of them are listed on the B scale.



Too Rich!!



blue

wow...

blue correct, 1.. blue bs 2398029357802985

B scale is for alum and brass...

jeffe

1.. Jeffoso bs 2398029357802985

B scale and C scale can be equal according to Ellis. He states " 16 C is about equal to 100 B, but the scale spacing is not the same on both"

Suffice it to say, I am repeating what I was told. Suffice it to say, the south american actions I had were very soft.

Blue

Jeff



I misspoke. I should have used Mr. Ellis's words,

Quote "about equal" rather than equal. I would think that the overlap would be something akin to the different temperature scales (e.g. centigrade and farenheit overlap but they do not have the same spacing).



Anyway, touche!



Blue

Infosponge,

You got me! I should have read that passage better.

Still not too bad for a simple mechanic, like me. You guys are all too smart for a simple man like myself. What scares me so much is that even though I am only a mechanic I seem to have a better grasp on this stuff that most, if not all, of you.

Scott

Blue, I've not made any actions but can assure you that it's no simple trick.....however I'd be far more concerned with warping it or causing a crack in the heat treating process.....so I'd use a piece of prehard 4140 and machine it in the hardened state. This material is usually about 32 Rc and fine for an action. One can machine steels up to 55 Rc with carbide but it's not much fun and the cuts are very light......32 Rc can still be cut with HSS tools but I'd still rather use carbide.

The race ways can be cut with a wire EDM I think

You could also use a material known as ETD180 which (as I recall) is coldworked 4140 and tensile strength of 180,000 PSI and don't heat treat it. It too can be cut with HSS or carbide.

I'd be far more worried about making the bolt as they all seem to be very hard and that is a totally different story. In a letter from P.O. Ackey years ago he said that he'd make the bolt from 4140 as well but he didn't discuss hardening it.

You have a heat treat company called metalurgical next door to you.....see if someone there will talk to you about case hardening 4140.