I'm not interested in synthetic stocks, but I'm curious if anyone has had any luck using any wood other than walnut for wooden stocks.

They supposedly have Pacific Walnut or New Guinea Walnut here in Indonesia. They claim it has a wavy grain that sometimes produces a coarse fiddle-back appearance.

They are also touting Pacific Rosewood or False Rosewood for gun stocks; or mahogany. Their first choice however is something called Limus.

I may look at the rosewood, but probably stay with walnut

Besides walnut, I have used Myrtle, Maple and Wild Cherry. Of the bunch, Cherry is by far my favorite to work. It is hard, cuts clean and dosen't chip much. It is a photosensitive wood, ageing into a mellow dark redish brown. Hard to find with much figure, but worth looking for. I don't know what is available in Bali, but stability over time or warp resistance is the most important characteristic to look for.

Try some Mesquite. It is hard to find in a clean stock blank, but can make a beautiful stock.

Limus ??. Horse Pucky !.Keep Looking !. Keep looking for another species . The problem with Several exotic wood species is the WEIGHT !. Others are Plenty strong enough , some have odors as well as resins which aren't exactly pleasant to putting ones face up against .



http://www.worldagroforestrycentre.org/sea/products/afd...sInfo.asp?SpID=18090

http://www.agroforestry.net/pubs/ChoosTimb.pdf

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

I had a mauser stock in Maple, I think is was soft maple. It finished to a silver white color not yellow and was quite light weight.

How about Bubinga?

quote:

Originally posted by Dall85:
Try some Mesquite. It is hard to find in a clean stock blank, but can make a beautiful stock.

Mesquite Here...

Don't know anything about these guys but they seem to be in the Mesquite Business.

Purpleheart:

George

I know I guy who has a rifle stocked in pear wood!

Koa, MonkeyPod, Eucalyptus, cengal, merbau,
kemuning and kenaung. Googled them.

http://www.agroforestry.net/pubs/ChoosTimb.pdf

I have them in Mesquite, Walnut and am working on one in Koa. Of the walnuts, I prefer lighter English with dark streaks.

I like fiddleback maple in addition to the various kinds of walnut. Mesquite is nice too if you can find a blank w/o pin knots and good layout.

GeorgeS ; Some weight in Purple Heart as with Green Heart !.

Curious as to how it's finished , just oil ?.

Be careful of to much UV exposure as Purple will turn plumb brown !. Pool cue tips .

I like it !. It's in an African caliber isn't it !.

If it's some affordable nice looking wood ones after , give a shout here on AR to some of the Lads Down Under !.

If they don't know where to get it , I can tell them . They do have some NICE wood down there !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

A lot of the wood named is just too heavy..IMO there is European walnut and European walnut, that is about if for a rifle stock..It has color, its not heavy, and most of all its strong...Today I buy all my walnut from Bill Dowtins oldworldwalnut.com ..... It is the only true European Circasian walnut (Russian) available that I know of. Bill actually is in partners with the mill in some unpronounceable town on the Afganistan border...

Kensco,
I had some New Guinea walnut years ago. Very light weight and rather porous. I did no like it much.
That Koa and Monkey Pod and the others that Richj mentioned above i have seen used and they are pretty wood. Nice enough for most gun applications...perhaps not big bores though.

Finally-

Atkinson Ray,
Is Bill Dowtin paying you a commission, or is he family or something?
I have my favorite wood providers too but i am not thinking of getting their names tattooed on a body part.

quote:

Atkinson Ray,
Is Bill Dowtin paying you a commission, or is he family or something?
I have my favorite wood providers too but i am not thinking of getting their names tattooed on a body part.

I won't speak for Ray !. It is my opinion he uses someone he can trust !.

There are several woods in the world which are suitable for Gun Stocks , some have WILD COLORS AND GRAIN PATTERNS , others not so wild but are FAR SUPERIOR IN STRENGTH TO WALNUT !.

Hickory is FAR SUPERIOR TO WALNUT AS FAR AS STRENGTH GOES !.

As are so many other species of the same relative weight as walnut .

Acacia Melanoxylon ( Australian Blackwood )

African Walnut ( which it's not walnut at all )also known as Tigerwood which is MORE than suitable for stocks .

African Mahogany ( Khaya Ivorensis ) which I've used a few times to make Large Entry doors on custom homes !. Excellent for gun stocks !.

Now if you were to make one out of say Dalbergia Melanoxylon ) African Blackwood !. Or IPE (Tabebuia Lapacho )You would need a Gun bearer to carry it for you and steady it as you attempted to shoulder the rifle !!.

However note the Australian Blackwood is just fine !!!. You have to know the actual Latin names for wood when purchasing exotics . As some of the suppliers or dealers may not even know WHAT THEY'RE PURCHASING EITHER !.

Maple works ok right ?. It's about Color and grain pattern , Beauty is in the eye of the beholder !. That's why wood comes in ALL colors weights and strengths .

The above listed woods aren't anywhere near the best examples for gunstocks , their just some !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

Do you feel like teak or ebony would be too heavy?

Is rosewood going to be durable enough? You always see it in small accent pieces, but never the complete stock. (The rosewood piece on my Sako fore-end is already cracked.)

Yes Teak and Gaboon or Macassar Ebony are to heavy IMO !.If it's " Real Teak " Tectona Grandis an a specific piece it may be suitable MAY BE !. Real Thai Teak is Difficult to acquire other than in finished products any more . BE CAREFUL there are substitutes like Borneo and Sumatran which are known in the trades as " False Teak " however marketed as teak non the less !.


Rosewood is like saying do you like this color of gray !. There are several species of Rosewood
. This is why I prefer their Latin genius as to insure we're all on the same page , when referring to one wood or the other .

Some people like Curly or Birds Eye Maple or Blond stocks , some like them painted !.

Then some like Walnut some like laminate stocks . So each to their own .

I prefer Wood in the range of .38-.62 SG Strong straight and decorative .

Perhaps this will help all of you when looking for an exotic species for gunstock material.

I try and access Reputable sites for information . When it comes to Wood none is better or more through than USDA or the Forest Products lab in Madison Wis. .

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr
/fplgtr76.pdf

Knowing Black Walnut Juglans Nigra has an average of 0.55 SG for weight . I would like to point out this is only an average !!. As wood in alive and grows in so many different soils conditions mineral contents , that SG is an average guide line . NOT etched in Stone !.

http://hort.ufl.edu/trees/JUGNIGA.pdf


Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

quote:

Originally posted by Dr.K:
There are several woods in the world which are suitable for Gun Stocks , some have WILD COLORS AND GRAIN PATTERNS , others not so wild but are FAR SUPERIOR IN STRENGTH TO WALNUT !.

Hickory is FAR SUPERIOR TO WALNUT AS FAR AS STRENGTH GOES !.

I have often wondered about Hickory. I like that wood, and used to work with it for other applications. Very tough wood.

Where could a guy search for a piece suitable for a quality gunstock?

Thanks. KB

I got a peacan (hickoy species) Mauser from Hoosier Gun Works. It is HARD.

http://www.hoosiergunworks.com/

Arn't the stocks on ruger 1022's made out of birch?

Your closer to the wood sources for domestic species than I am .

Pecan hickory is good stuff ( So are the nuts )

ShellBark hickory , White Oak is also real stiff hard lumber .

I'll give some of you in the mid west mid southern states a heads up .

All this recent flooding is going to be having people removing full trees . If they weren't up rooted already . An abundance of lumber is going to be necessary to rebuild homes .

Decks, porches out buildings fences things like that not house frames or such .

So contact some locals or lumber mills in your areas because the lower trunk isn't generally sawn for timber .

There are several purveyors of dimensional lumber in a variety of species which handle thicker stock . Local wood turning guilds is where I used to sell that type of materials to .

Birch is indeed a stock material as many WW2 stocks were made from it as were foreign rifle stocks . Spalted Birch is beautiful wood another which is even more exotic looking is marbled Alaskan birch .

Know a guy in Palmer Alaska who has a .338 Win Mag with one . Absolutely Stunning to look at !!.

I had a antique truck bed floor I re did with Spalted Birch , Fellow bought the truck because of the Bed !!. Go figure .

Places like these ( I Have no affiliation with any of these ) I use them as samples !. when buying thicker 10/4 12/4 rough kiln dried or seasoned air dry you need to seek out specialty out fits who sell wood to artisans ,craftsmen wood turners ,furniture manufactures .

Some stock purveyors may carry some but doubtful as most of them are fixated on $1K -5K Walnut blanks in exhibition grade .

Takes all the Zest out of that new rifle build for me looking at a $ 3K blank !.

Perhaps the rest of you have Big Bucks .

http://www.woodvendors.com/search/details_find.asp?Comm...Olk5QCFSQdagodqxm5uA

http://www.mgsawmill.com/product.htm

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

Many hardwoods are suitable for gunstocks. However...most every species of hardwood checkers poorly. When you checker over the ends of grain you will get fuzz.

If that is not a concern then you will be fine for most calibers.

What makes Juglans Regia superior to all other hardwoods is the length of the grain. It is over twice the length of other hardwoods.
The benefits are multiple.

Good luck.

Surprised no one's mentioned beech......

Still used for commercial stocks - not fancy but works well I think?

There are some great places provided here to get beautiful blanks, but I can't finish a stock. Who do you recommend if I come up with a good piece of wood?

BEECH BEECH Happy Now ?.

http://www.first285.com/gunstock/

Walnut isn't superior as far as length of grain and it's not over or near or under twice as long as other hardwoods .

It's beautiful correct weight and stiff enough to with stand shock as is Several hundreds of other species of woods !.

Look around and check out exotic species and the carvings that are done from what ever type of woods .

I've known Mitch for over 35 years !. Check out some stuff .

http://www.anexotichardwood.com/

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:I have often wondered about Hickory. I like that wood, and used to work with it for other applications. Very tough wood.

Where could a guy search for a piece suitable for a quality gunstock?

Thanks. KB

let me know if you find out. I am also looking for some. red, if I can find it.

You bettcha,
I saved Dr.Ks internet link to the guy with the duplicator, and the laminated stocks. I think that has real possibilities, especially if thinking about something besides the standard walnut blank.

I remember several years ago, in my home state of Georgia, I was looking for some hickory lumber, and was referred to a small sawmill out in the countryside. This guy had large stacks of good hardwood and cypress. The boards were stacked in a way to air dry well, and also avoid warping. He cut it all himself. He had lots of hickory. Next time I visit GA, I will see if the mill is still there. I think there are many such small mills all over the south.

In my research so far, I see that they class hickory with pecan. I don't know what to think about that. The hickory I am familar with comes from trees that have mostly straight trunks. The grain is good color and straight. It may be difficult to find a piece with the grain flow curving through the pistol grip area, and with some figure in the butt.

The pecan trees I am familiar with look a lot like a walnut tree, with a short trunk, and lots of big limbs going out. This would increase the odds of finding a really good looking slab, especially where the big limbs joined the trunk. There's just as many places in a pecan tree as in a walnut tree to get a piece with figure, and laid out well for a gunstock. It's just a question of the density, weight, color, and workability of the wood. I seriously doubt that pecan can beat walnut, but the possibilities are still interesting, especially if a guy could fing a really interesting board, and have it laminated like the pictures shown in the other link.

The laminate would resolve most issues with stability, and perhaps reduce weight, but still retain the color and figure that made the slab interesting in the first place.

Also, perhaps a simple straight grain, good color piece of GA hickory would be stable, and interesting enough without all the trouble. There is little doubt about its toughness. The wood I am familiar with would probably weigh a little more that a piece of walnut same size, but maybe a guy could make a really slender stock. I believe the strength would still be there with hickory.

The pecan I am familiar with is more fickle wood compared to the real hickory and subject to warp, and brittle, although very hard and has more figure. I would be more suspect of pecan, and maybe look for a piece cut from the trunk where the slab would be more stable, and not so subject to the drying cracks I have seen. I guess I will learn more as I look into it.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Dr.K:
BEECH BEECH Happy Now ?.

http://www.first285.com/gunstock/

Walnut isn't superior as far as length of grain and it's not over or near or under twice as long as other hardwoods .

It's beautiful correct weight and stiff enough to with stand shock as is Several hundreds of other species of woods !.

Look around and check out exotic species and the carvings that are done from what ever type of woods .

I've known Mitch for over 35 years !. Check out some stuff .

http://www.anexotichardwood.com/

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

Bought some Osage from them a while back...

Dr. K,
With due respect.

A more detailed statement i should have made is this...
Of all the hard woods within acceptable weights (meaning few exotics) Juglans Regia is superior.

The cost of building the finest rifles in the world has allowed gunmakers to try every species that they had within their reach.
Not every species on the face of the planet mind you.

A century ago the best makers in the world (British) figured out that they had stumbled across a wood that was within the needed weight, a species that flexed well under heavy recoil WITHOUT cracking , a species that was remarkably stable under all weather conditions and a species that checkered beyond other species. The reason it was all of these things is because the fibers are 7 to 10 inches in length. All the other hard woods they had tried were 3 to 5 inches in length.

Aside from all those properties above, that were found to be superior to every species they had tried, was Juglans Regias inherit beauty.

All that said, of course other woods can be used and have been used.
But when people work hard for their money and when a gunstock is picked because of reasons beyond just beauty, i.e. strength and stabilty the choices of lumber get small.
And who wants a 15 pound 270 Winchester?

Choices other than walnut.
Try some of the various Cherry species. Great wood that is fine to work with. Checkers decent. Does not like wet weather.

Ash is great to rive and fun to work. It finishes well but checkers pore. It has open pores and does ok out doors. It has a propensity to warp. Very hard.

Maple, A great alternative to walnut for a gun handle. Short fibers usually fuzz when checkered. Weathers well. Stains well. Handles recoil well.

Black walnut. If you get old growth Black or Claro walnut that neither came from an orchard or a farm where it was regularly watered you have a fair handle for your gun. Eastern black is superior to Claro all things being equal. Both tend to fuzz when checkered. If stocking a big bore you are wise to choose Eastern Black over Claro if you must use one of these two species.

Oak. Believe it or not the English gun trade actually tried oak on heavy recoiling guns. It worked well. White oak weathers very well and is basically water proof. Open pores proved to checker very pore.

Osage. Very hard and tight grained. If the color is acceptable it is not a bad wood for gunstsocks, however it is hard to get lengths long enough for a nice forend.

Mesquite, Extremely stable. Very hard. Stains and/or oils well. It is a very nice wood for gunstocks. However, it too is hard to find pieces with acceptable lengths in regards to a forend.

I mention the above woods because they all have one thing in common with exception to Ash and Osage. They have deep grain when oiled and exhibit depth in the finish which most people with eyes find appealing and beautiful.
Ash will have some nice curl and stains very interesting on occasion.
Osage gets nicer with age as does Cherry. Difference is Cherry starts out beautiful.

Hickory? Well it found its place in handles on tools. Very hard and shock resistant.


I have also played with exotics from the South Pacific and Orient. Some were ok. Others were very tough to dry without excessive warping or checking. Weight was also a problem.

What one needs when choosing an alternative wood for a gunstock is to talk with stock makers that have experience with alternative woods.

Good luck.

Al Freeman ; Without getting into a pissing match or flexing educational muscle , I shall simply tell you that WOOD was MY LIFE for near 30 years !.
I purveyed Hardwoods and some softwoods from the WORLD OVER !.

I also Co authored a Bio Mass fuel alternative study for the University of Hawaii as part of my Masters Degree in Structural Engineering .

I have seen more species of wood growing in their native habitat than most . I've seen Mills in the Bush with Hand saws BIG ONES !. Chain saws Band Mills Rail car de barkers optimizers laser saws chop saws pulp grinders to every kind of machine from full 9 head profiler's end matcher's veneer peeler's .

Here is but a hint of what you need to understand about wood .SG MOE MOR IZOD JANKA AOF RO are just but a few to bear in mind .

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/ch04.pdf

I don't wish to Shock you or anyone else .

DF ( Douglas Fir ) Northern species is EVERY BIT AS STRONG AS WALNUT !. Numbers are almost Identical !. It's a softwood !. There are softwoods around the world which put Walnut to shame as far as strength and stability goes !.

I don't recall ships being made of walnut or airplanes for that matter !.

Do recall White Oak Hornbeam Hickory Long Leaf Pine Cedars Firs and such being used as well as others .

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/elm,%20carpathian.htm

To see the above wood in person is Near good as it gets .

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics
/amboyna.htm

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/store/

http://tropix.cirad.fr/america/imbuia.pdf

http://www.fbbcustom.com/woodstar/woods.html

http://www2.fpl.fs.fed.us/TechSheets/Chudnoff/TropAmerican/pdf_fil

Different strokes for different folks !.
Want a truly unique laminated stock stable Beautiful ?. CUT AND GLUE EXOTICS !.

These above pictures simply give one an Idea as to perhaps something more in color choices than Walnut!. Now those aren't the places to Buy blanks from !. They have nice visual wood species to gander at . Check out Rosewoods , snake or Kingwood Mahogany's what ever ,see the color variations between species !.

I would take African Mahogany or Honduran ANY DAY OVER WALNUT , and I don't like red !. Some of the Mahogany's are really quite stunning and Brown toned rather than red .


I'm simply trying to set fact from fiction !.

If you like a wood , then check to see if it's in the weight range acceptable for your project . The vast majority of exotic woods are FAR SUPERIOR in Stability Hardness and Beauty to Walnut .

SOME EXOTICS ARE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS WHEN CUTTING SANDING LETTING !. However not after they've been finished .
Sanding Dust splinters can inflict sever eye nose throat irritations COCOBOLO being only one !.

My LAST Tip on this subject ; ALWAYS TRY AN USE THE LATIN GENIUS and look for Mechanical properties . Then YOUR SURE !.

Ask the Boys down under about Eucalyptus maculata Spotted Gum !. It has near TWICE the strength of Hickory . I've been using the same Axe Pick Hammer shovel handles for over thirty eight years now .All are out side 365 under my garage over hang rain or shine . ALL are Eucalyptus Maculata ( Spotted Gum handles courtesy Allen Taylor ( Boral Timbers Now ) By the way there are several different Hickory's to !.
There are over 750 species of Eucalyptus alone with hybridizing !. Surprised I knew that ?. Shouldn't be I helped identify them !!.

Welcome to my previous World !!.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

Mr. Freeman, ignore him. You can't argue with a drunk or an idiot. They don't hear it and it just irritates you. It is just the usual from him, "I'm so great, you're so piss-ant". I have the dullard on ignore, but only read his drivel to see how he would attempt to belittle someone who really was in the business.

Hey Larry ? are you a cable guy ?. Ignorance in action is status quote .

Anyone can decide for themselves if they wish an alternative to WALNUT .

Lemmings and Fools follow all the rules !.

Shoot Straight Know Your target . ...

I have used Kentucky Coffee Bean and Mallberry this coming week Thursday or Friday I am sawing Shellbark Hickory, in our area bird peck is common giving it a character . DrK alway enjoy your informative post.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
...In my research so far, I see that they class hickory with pecan. I don't know what to think about that...KB

they are related, apparently. that's what I remember from my bit of looking.

of course, we could ask Dr.K, as he seems to have invented wood, stocks, wooden stocks, epoxy, adhesives, organic chemistry, and everything else discussed on this board, directly or indirectly.

I can understand the question if a person has a hard time geting their hands on good walnut, but for the most part people are always trying to re-invent the wheel hence all the experimenting with other woods. But then some people like metallic blue laminates too so....................

Yes. Today I bought a nice laminate stock off Ebay. Not a 798 take-off. I'm pretty sure it's made of wood. I don't know what species, but it looks good as far as laminates go. Inlettd for a '98 Mauser Commercial. Paid dearly for it, but it's pretty much a sure thing it will work out well. Already has checkering too.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
Mr. Freeman, ignore him. You can't argue with a drunk or an idiot. They don't hear it and it just irritates you. It is just the usual from him, "I'm so great, you're so piss-ant". I have the dullard on ignore, but only read his drivel to see how he would attempt to belittle someone who really was in the business.

For a lack of better words, Why don't you get off his ass. He is just trying to help.

quote:

Originally posted by maxbear:
For a lack of better words, Why don't you get off his ass. He is just trying to help.

Well said maxbear. I enjoyed reading Afreeman's comments and Dr.K's as well. Very interesting knowledge and opinion. I'm sure there are several of us who would rather not see personal snipes and insults. It's distracting and unneccessary at least.

I know I'm no saint either. There was at least once when I wasn't so nice on this forum, but it wasn't very satisfying either. I got scolded by other members for it too. So, there is nothing wrong with a good debate or gentlemanly dissagreement.

KB